Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: The Anti-Fanboy View
Chris Gould tries to take an unbiased look at the new high-definition formats
As a new convert to the world of high-definition I thought it might be a good idea to write a short article detailing my experiences so far. Thankfully I’ve been lucky enough to upgrade to a ‘Full HD’ set-up, which has allowed me to appreciate the improved audio-visual experience offered by both Blu-ray and HD DVD while remaining format-neutral. Let’s begin by examining the pros and cons of each format, as observed by me in the course of everyday use.
In the interests of fair play (and to minimise the inevitable accusations of bias) let’s start alphabetically, with Blu-ray Disc. I’ve been very impressed with the quality of the titles I’ve seen on Sony’s format, especially from relatively recent films such as Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. The level of detail in films encoded at 1080p far surpasses that of standard-definition DVD, allowing you to pick out elements that would ordinarily pass you by. Audio is also impressive, with engaging soundtracks encoded in lossless formats like PCM or DTS-HD Master Audio. However, it’s not all rosy in the Blu-ray garden.
One of the biggest selling points of the new formats is their ability to handle high-def audio. For Blu-ray this means either PCM, DTS-HD Master Audio or, less commonly, Dolby TrueHD. While all of these sound great on paper, things are a little more complicated than the specs suggest. At the time of writing I don’t know of a single Blu-ray player that can internally decode DTS-HD (either ‘lossless’ Master Audio or the lossy High Resolution variant). Instead people will hear the legacy Core track, which should still sound great, but which isn’t high-def audio. Thankfully a large number of discs include uncompressed PCM soundtracks, which are identical to the studio master but eat up disc space that could be used for other things.
The audio issues are annoying, but my biggest criticism of the format is that it is not standardised. My BD player is what they call a ‘Profile 1.0’ machine, which means it is capable of playing back Blu-ray movies and standard features but it is incapable of handling the more advanced features that will be available on future releases. For this you will need a Profile 1.1 player, which will allow you to enjoy picture-in-picture commentaries and other advanced BD-J (Blu-ray Java) features. Another problem with Profile 1.0 machines is that the already long loading times of Blu-ray are exacerbated when players encounter discs with even the most basic of BD-J content.
For example, the average loading time for a film on my machine is around thirty seconds, but throw some BD-J features into the mix (discs such as Pirates of the Caribbean and FF2: Rise of the Silver Surfer) and the loading times rise to anywhere between two and three minutes! I don't know about you, but I find this situation totally unacceptable and can’t believe that the technology was launched with what amounts to built-in obsolescence. I’m not even going to discuss Profile 2.0, which has already been announced...
Another major issue I have with Blu-ray is the regional coding. Although simplified to three regions (from DVD’s six), it is unlikely to be cracked in the way that DVD regional protection was. I wouldn’t have such a big problem with regional coding if it was used to protect the theatrical release dates of new releases (after all, that’s what it’s supposed to be for), but many studios still insist on coding catalogue titles. I’m talking about twenty year old films here (sometimes older). The only reason for the coding of such titles can be to control the price in various markets, but it also means that some territories have access to a much wider selection of titles than others. I like to watch Asian cinema, but this could become very difficult for me in the future, at least on Blu-ray.
Other than that, I’m fairly happy with the format. There are some minor issues that I find bothersome, such as navigation speed and the lack of resume support when you press the stop button, but these problems are not exclusive to Blu-ray.
As we move on to HD DVD many of the positive points raised above still stand, but there are a whole new set of negatives. The most widely publicised of these is probably the disc capacity issue. Whereas Blu-ray has a dual-layer disc capacity of 50GB, HD DVD is currently restricted to 30GB. This means less room for content, be it the main feature or bonus material, which is usually presented in standard definition. More space may come in the future with triple-layer discs, but whether these will be compatible with existing hardware remains to be seen and the Blu-ray camp is already promising 200GB discs...
One of the most obvious side-effects of the relative lack of disc space is that many HD DVD titles lack lossless soundtracks (and I don’t know of any with uncompressed PCM). However, I’ve recently read a number of articles and listened to a number of podcasts that suggest the lack of TrueHD is not necessarily down to storage limitations, but rather conscious choice by the content designers. Indeed, in a recent interview a pair of Dolby engineers discussed the lack of TrueHD on the flagship Transformers HD DVD, proclaiming the Dolby Digital Plus track to be ‘audibly transparent’ to the studio master. Are they to be believed? Thankfully the interactive side of things is pretty much sorted, as HD DVD was launched with support for interactive features from the get-go.
HD DVD also has less studio support than Blu-ray, which translates to a smaller selection of available titles. At present only two of the major studios are exclusively supporting HD DVD (Paramount and Universal), with Warner opting to cover both formats. This is in stark contrast to Blu-ray, which has exclusive backing from Sony (of course), Fox, Disney (and its subsidiaries) and Lionsgate. Of course many smaller studios are also backing the formats, but it would seem that Blu-ray also has the edge there (at least in my experience).
Other, less obvious ‘deficiencies’ include a slightly less robust manufacturing process, which makes HD DVD discs more susceptible to dirt and scratches than Blu-ray discs, and a lower maximum bitrate for DVD video. Whether these are particularly big problems is debatable, but they are worth mentioning all the same. Other than that my experience was much the same as Blu-ray, with only slight annoyances like the lack of resume support and extended loading times and navigational delays (although HD DVD is quicker than Blu-ray in these respects).
At the moment both formats have compatibility issues, which usually manifest as the inability to play newer titles, but these can be addressed with firmware updates. Unfortunately it is impossible to get around the hardware restrictions of Profile 1.0 players, so all early-adopters will have to buy a new player if they want to enjoy the full Blu-ray experience. This is a particularly bitter pill to swallow considering the relatively high cost of Blu-ray hardware, and the main driving force behind my next statement.
If studio allegiances were not an issue and I was forced to choose between the formats at this moment in time, I would probably side with HD DVD. In my experience the hardware is more mature, the software offers more in the way of interactivity and, crucially, it does not enforce regional coding. As production costs fall storage will be less of an issue, either because of multi-layered discs or because we will start to see more multi-disc sets (as is the norm with DVD), which will close the gap even further.
Of course my opinion counts for very little in a battle that will be fought and won in the USA, a territory largely unconcerned with multi-region capability because of the size and diversity of the domestic market. With backing from so many of the major players, superior software sales and a larger installed user base courtesy of the PS3, the odds would seem to be stacked in Blu-ray’s favour. Certainly, given a level playing field Sony's format would seem to be the logical choice on paper, but I wouldn’t write off HD DVD just yet. I happen to think the formats are set to coexist for some time, for better or worse.
However, I personally feel that both formats are premature. The vast majority of people are simply not concerned about high-definition, be it Blu-ray, HD DVD or broadcast television. I know only a handful of people who can afford to own an HDTV and of those even fewer have them hooked up to a high-definition source. In fact, most people I've spoken to outside of the 'DVD community' don't have the first clue about either format, which is a trend that's repeated by store-workers and, yes, even the manufacturers if the conversations I've had with various technical help-desks are any indicator (they know who they are).
Sales would seem to reflect my opinion, with combined Blu-ray and HD DVD figures currently accounting for less than two percent of the total DVD market! At least some of the blame for the lacklustre sales figures must be attributed to the ongoing format war, which isn't helped by the two camps taking every opportunity to hurl insults or massage sales figures to 'prove' that the other is about to fail. Fanboys from both sides banging on about attach rates and the like seem to have forgotten what the formats are meant for—watching films. When it comes to that, Blu-ray and HD DVD offer a virtually identical experience; albeit one that is streets ahead of standard-definition in terms of quality. My advice to you is to hold off for a while longer until hardware is standardised and prices start to fall. If nothing else it will give you more time to save your pennies for that all-singing, all-dancing, dual-format player!
Editorial by Chris Gould
In the interests of fair play (and to minimise the inevitable accusations of bias) let’s start alphabetically, with Blu-ray Disc. I’ve been very impressed with the quality of the titles I’ve seen on Sony’s format, especially from relatively recent films such as Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. The level of detail in films encoded at 1080p far surpasses that of standard-definition DVD, allowing you to pick out elements that would ordinarily pass you by. Audio is also impressive, with engaging soundtracks encoded in lossless formats like PCM or DTS-HD Master Audio. However, it’s not all rosy in the Blu-ray garden.
One of the biggest selling points of the new formats is their ability to handle high-def audio. For Blu-ray this means either PCM, DTS-HD Master Audio or, less commonly, Dolby TrueHD. While all of these sound great on paper, things are a little more complicated than the specs suggest. At the time of writing I don’t know of a single Blu-ray player that can internally decode DTS-HD (either ‘lossless’ Master Audio or the lossy High Resolution variant). Instead people will hear the legacy Core track, which should still sound great, but which isn’t high-def audio. Thankfully a large number of discs include uncompressed PCM soundtracks, which are identical to the studio master but eat up disc space that could be used for other things.
The audio issues are annoying, but my biggest criticism of the format is that it is not standardised. My BD player is what they call a ‘Profile 1.0’ machine, which means it is capable of playing back Blu-ray movies and standard features but it is incapable of handling the more advanced features that will be available on future releases. For this you will need a Profile 1.1 player, which will allow you to enjoy picture-in-picture commentaries and other advanced BD-J (Blu-ray Java) features. Another problem with Profile 1.0 machines is that the already long loading times of Blu-ray are exacerbated when players encounter discs with even the most basic of BD-J content.
For example, the average loading time for a film on my machine is around thirty seconds, but throw some BD-J features into the mix (discs such as Pirates of the Caribbean and FF2: Rise of the Silver Surfer) and the loading times rise to anywhere between two and three minutes! I don't know about you, but I find this situation totally unacceptable and can’t believe that the technology was launched with what amounts to built-in obsolescence. I’m not even going to discuss Profile 2.0, which has already been announced...
Another major issue I have with Blu-ray is the regional coding. Although simplified to three regions (from DVD’s six), it is unlikely to be cracked in the way that DVD regional protection was. I wouldn’t have such a big problem with regional coding if it was used to protect the theatrical release dates of new releases (after all, that’s what it’s supposed to be for), but many studios still insist on coding catalogue titles. I’m talking about twenty year old films here (sometimes older). The only reason for the coding of such titles can be to control the price in various markets, but it also means that some territories have access to a much wider selection of titles than others. I like to watch Asian cinema, but this could become very difficult for me in the future, at least on Blu-ray.
Other than that, I’m fairly happy with the format. There are some minor issues that I find bothersome, such as navigation speed and the lack of resume support when you press the stop button, but these problems are not exclusive to Blu-ray.
As we move on to HD DVD many of the positive points raised above still stand, but there are a whole new set of negatives. The most widely publicised of these is probably the disc capacity issue. Whereas Blu-ray has a dual-layer disc capacity of 50GB, HD DVD is currently restricted to 30GB. This means less room for content, be it the main feature or bonus material, which is usually presented in standard definition. More space may come in the future with triple-layer discs, but whether these will be compatible with existing hardware remains to be seen and the Blu-ray camp is already promising 200GB discs...
One of the most obvious side-effects of the relative lack of disc space is that many HD DVD titles lack lossless soundtracks (and I don’t know of any with uncompressed PCM). However, I’ve recently read a number of articles and listened to a number of podcasts that suggest the lack of TrueHD is not necessarily down to storage limitations, but rather conscious choice by the content designers. Indeed, in a recent interview a pair of Dolby engineers discussed the lack of TrueHD on the flagship Transformers HD DVD, proclaiming the Dolby Digital Plus track to be ‘audibly transparent’ to the studio master. Are they to be believed? Thankfully the interactive side of things is pretty much sorted, as HD DVD was launched with support for interactive features from the get-go.
HD DVD also has less studio support than Blu-ray, which translates to a smaller selection of available titles. At present only two of the major studios are exclusively supporting HD DVD (Paramount and Universal), with Warner opting to cover both formats. This is in stark contrast to Blu-ray, which has exclusive backing from Sony (of course), Fox, Disney (and its subsidiaries) and Lionsgate. Of course many smaller studios are also backing the formats, but it would seem that Blu-ray also has the edge there (at least in my experience).
Other, less obvious ‘deficiencies’ include a slightly less robust manufacturing process, which makes HD DVD discs more susceptible to dirt and scratches than Blu-ray discs, and a lower maximum bitrate for DVD video. Whether these are particularly big problems is debatable, but they are worth mentioning all the same. Other than that my experience was much the same as Blu-ray, with only slight annoyances like the lack of resume support and extended loading times and navigational delays (although HD DVD is quicker than Blu-ray in these respects).
Conclusion
At the moment both formats have compatibility issues, which usually manifest as the inability to play newer titles, but these can be addressed with firmware updates. Unfortunately it is impossible to get around the hardware restrictions of Profile 1.0 players, so all early-adopters will have to buy a new player if they want to enjoy the full Blu-ray experience. This is a particularly bitter pill to swallow considering the relatively high cost of Blu-ray hardware, and the main driving force behind my next statement.
If studio allegiances were not an issue and I was forced to choose between the formats at this moment in time, I would probably side with HD DVD. In my experience the hardware is more mature, the software offers more in the way of interactivity and, crucially, it does not enforce regional coding. As production costs fall storage will be less of an issue, either because of multi-layered discs or because we will start to see more multi-disc sets (as is the norm with DVD), which will close the gap even further.
Of course my opinion counts for very little in a battle that will be fought and won in the USA, a territory largely unconcerned with multi-region capability because of the size and diversity of the domestic market. With backing from so many of the major players, superior software sales and a larger installed user base courtesy of the PS3, the odds would seem to be stacked in Blu-ray’s favour. Certainly, given a level playing field Sony's format would seem to be the logical choice on paper, but I wouldn’t write off HD DVD just yet. I happen to think the formats are set to coexist for some time, for better or worse.
However, I personally feel that both formats are premature. The vast majority of people are simply not concerned about high-definition, be it Blu-ray, HD DVD or broadcast television. I know only a handful of people who can afford to own an HDTV and of those even fewer have them hooked up to a high-definition source. In fact, most people I've spoken to outside of the 'DVD community' don't have the first clue about either format, which is a trend that's repeated by store-workers and, yes, even the manufacturers if the conversations I've had with various technical help-desks are any indicator (they know who they are).
Sales would seem to reflect my opinion, with combined Blu-ray and HD DVD figures currently accounting for less than two percent of the total DVD market! At least some of the blame for the lacklustre sales figures must be attributed to the ongoing format war, which isn't helped by the two camps taking every opportunity to hurl insults or massage sales figures to 'prove' that the other is about to fail. Fanboys from both sides banging on about attach rates and the like seem to have forgotten what the formats are meant for—watching films. When it comes to that, Blu-ray and HD DVD offer a virtually identical experience; albeit one that is streets ahead of standard-definition in terms of quality. My advice to you is to hold off for a while longer until hardware is standardised and prices start to fall. If nothing else it will give you more time to save your pennies for that all-singing, all-dancing, dual-format player!
Editorial by Chris Gould
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Jonny
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Join Date: April 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 26
Excellent article, I do if forced would side with HD DVD, but I'm more then content with DVD right now, hate to have my collection obsolete.
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Great Review
Nice article, Chris.
I don't have the money to invest in either format and am waiting on the sidelines to see which format wins the war. I am silently praying that Blu-Ray wins for the simple fact that I hope to buy a PlayStation 3 this spring.
I don't have the money to invest in either format and am waiting on the sidelines to see which format wins the war. I am silently praying that Blu-Ray wins for the simple fact that I hope to buy a PlayStation 3 this spring.
God Damn It! I was preparing one of these too. Oh well.
Jonny wrote: Excellent article, I do if forced would side with HD DVD, but I'm more then content with DVD right now, hate to have my collection obsolete.
Agree with you DVD is working for me right and my collection is great. Also not many great titles are out on HD like Star Wars, Jaws, Back to the Future, and many more that are already out on DVD.
Agree with you DVD is working for me right and my collection is great. Also not many great titles are out on HD like Star Wars, Jaws, Back to the Future, and many more that are already out on DVD.
Anyway, my HD player hasn't arrived yet, but the region coding is a big issue for me, as a fan of foreign and exploitation cinema. My DVD collection is probably 30% non-R1 at this point, and I'd hate to lose the ability to watch a possible German release of Night of the Demon in HD.
That last bit was kind of a joke. Kind of.
Also, the load issue really pisses me off. My Sony model takes almost a minute just to turn on, and Ratattoullie took about three minutes just to load the God damned menu, plus another three to load the film.
That last bit was kind of a joke. Kind of.
Also, the load issue really pisses me off. My Sony model takes almost a minute just to turn on, and Ratattoullie took about three minutes just to load the God damned menu, plus another three to load the film.
I am happy with DVD for now. heck, don't even own a HDTV. Once I do, I'll need the hi-def cable box (for digital cable or satellite), a HD surround system (with many HDMI ports) and an HDMI DVD player until someone wins this war. Once that happens, I'll have the hardware to fully enjoy and experience it. Of the two, I prefer blu ray from what I've seen so far
Well, word is that Warner is going to go Blu-Ray exclusive in 2008 which would almost mean the end of the format war.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-cou...
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/07/warner-cou...
I got to admit this war sucks. True thing about this article is that the BR players are slow when it comes to the interactive menu's. My friend got a PS3 and went to his place and when we watched a few movies it lags a little when you select a movie option.
I'm more leaning towards HD-DVD movies are way cheaper and movie selection owns (IMO) Plus CLOVERFIELD, IRON MAN, INDIANA JONES, THE DARK KNIGHT, all going to HD DVD only it looks. Difference in picture quality is minimal when you see '300' on BR and HDDVD on 2 HD sets side by side.
I could have sworn, me and few other ppl at the store, the 300 movie on HD looked a lil better.
I'm more leaning towards HD-DVD movies are way cheaper and movie selection owns (IMO) Plus CLOVERFIELD, IRON MAN, INDIANA JONES, THE DARK KNIGHT, all going to HD DVD only it looks. Difference in picture quality is minimal when you see '300' on BR and HDDVD on 2 HD sets side by side.
I could have sworn, me and few other ppl at the store, the 300 movie on HD looked a lil better.
John Oaks wrote: Well, word is that Warner is going to go Blu-Ray exclusive in 2008 which would almost mean the end of the format war.
That's just a rumour started by a Blu-ray bod that spread. I've already read an official statement from a Warner executive stating that they will be releasing on both formats for the foreseeable future. If the rumour was true you would expect silence or denial.
That's just a rumour started by a Blu-ray bod that spread. I've already read an official statement from a Warner executive stating that they will be releasing on both formats for the foreseeable future. If the rumour was true you would expect silence or denial.
I'm definitely sticking to DVD, possibly infinitely if Blu-Ray wins, especially if the region coding issue remains (and possibly out of sheer spite if Warner hops onto the BD bandwagon).
The fact also is that I watch my DVDs mainly on my PC, which is far too old to even run hi-res DivX smoothly, let alone HD material. And what about those "copyright" protection schemes for playback on PC? Sounds more like "Anti-viewing protection" to me.
Not to mention I don't see myself buying a 40+ inch television anytime soon. I don't even have a surround sound system yet.
The fact also is that I watch my DVDs mainly on my PC, which is far too old to even run hi-res DivX smoothly, let alone HD material. And what about those "copyright" protection schemes for playback on PC? Sounds more like "Anti-viewing protection" to me.
Not to mention I don't see myself buying a 40+ inch television anytime soon. I don't even have a surround sound system yet.
I'm one of the rare and lucky people who own players that play both formats.
I have a PS3 and a Toshiba HD-E1 and I own several discs on each format.
Here are my views, take them or leave them.
First of all, both players can have their firmware updated by the internet, so both can be up to date, including PIP for Blu-ray and improved loading times for the Toshiba.
Both formats experience lag when navigating. The Toshiba takes about 30 seconds just to power up with the playstation taking less time but its a different machine for different purposes so I wont count that. Mind you, I have never experienced anything near the wait times for the PS3 blu-ray player that the article mentioned.
There are many more discs available for blu-ray which is a major factor in which discs I buy because both formats look stunning and both players have upscalers via HDMI.
I haven't had a problem with region coding on either format so that hasn't been an issue.
I think I can best sum up this ridiculous format war by saying that I choose which format when offered a choice of both (not possible with some films) to buy by looking at the cover art and deciding if the red band at the top or the blue band at the top looks best. On a more cynical note, I ordered the limited edition BLADERUNNER set on HD-DVD because I thought it might be worth more in the future because I feel that with Sony owning Bond and Fox owning Star Wars, HD-DVD will go the way of beta max.
And finally, for you all to feel sorry for me being a sad Trekkie or get angry at the conspiracies at work here intent on giving the consumer the hardest time - I only bought an HD-DVD player to get the new Star Trek set on HD because Paramount got huge 'promotional' funds from Microsoft and Toshiba to drop their support of blu-ray. If I absolutely had to pick a format to support above the other, I would go with blu-ray.
I have a PS3 and a Toshiba HD-E1 and I own several discs on each format.
Here are my views, take them or leave them.
First of all, both players can have their firmware updated by the internet, so both can be up to date, including PIP for Blu-ray and improved loading times for the Toshiba.
Both formats experience lag when navigating. The Toshiba takes about 30 seconds just to power up with the playstation taking less time but its a different machine for different purposes so I wont count that. Mind you, I have never experienced anything near the wait times for the PS3 blu-ray player that the article mentioned.
There are many more discs available for blu-ray which is a major factor in which discs I buy because both formats look stunning and both players have upscalers via HDMI.
I haven't had a problem with region coding on either format so that hasn't been an issue.
I think I can best sum up this ridiculous format war by saying that I choose which format when offered a choice of both (not possible with some films) to buy by looking at the cover art and deciding if the red band at the top or the blue band at the top looks best. On a more cynical note, I ordered the limited edition BLADERUNNER set on HD-DVD because I thought it might be worth more in the future because I feel that with Sony owning Bond and Fox owning Star Wars, HD-DVD will go the way of beta max.
And finally, for you all to feel sorry for me being a sad Trekkie or get angry at the conspiracies at work here intent on giving the consumer the hardest time - I only bought an HD-DVD player to get the new Star Trek set on HD because Paramount got huge 'promotional' funds from Microsoft and Toshiba to drop their support of blu-ray. If I absolutely had to pick a format to support above the other, I would go with blu-ray.
Nice work, Chris. But I do agree with Jonny. I wouldn't want my DVD collection obsolete, but I'd actually perfer Blu-ray. Pixar supports Blu-ray.
A couple of footnotes...
Contrary to one of the posters above, I haven't found any format to be cheaper than the other when offered a choice.
I just watched the 30th Aniversary blu-ray (an exlusive to the format) of Close Encounters, and it was terrific! A really well put together package to showcase the format.
Contrary to one of the posters above, I haven't found any format to be cheaper than the other when offered a choice.
I just watched the 30th Aniversary blu-ray (an exlusive to the format) of Close Encounters, and it was terrific! A really well put together package to showcase the format.
toonloon wrote:
First of all, both players can have their firmware updated by the internet, so both can be up to date, including PIP for Blu-ray and improved loading times for the Toshiba.
That may be true of the PS3 (although it's unconfirmed at this moment in time), but it's definitely not true of the vast majority of standalone BD players.
Quote: There are many more discs available for blu-ray which is a major factor in which discs I buy because both formats look stunning and both players have upscalers via HDMI.
I don't think there are 'many more'. There are more, but it's not as many as the BD camp would have you believe. Of course it depends which markets you look at.
Quote: I haven't had a problem with region coding on either format so that hasn't been an issue.
HD DVD doesn't have regional coding for the HD DVD content, just for the SD content. If you haven't got a problem with regional coding I can only assume that you don't buy discs from other countries. If you do, you will have a problem in the future because BD codes both.
Quote: when offered a choice of both (not possible with some films) to buy by looking at the cover art and deciding if the red band at the top or the blue band at the top looks best.
That's, well, insane. So you might possibly buy the BD of 300 if you thought the blue cover looked better than the red of HD DVD, even though the HD DVD version is superior?
Quote: Paramount got huge 'promotional' funds from Microsoft and Toshiba to drop their support of blu-ray.
I believe the Paramount deal had something to do with the rights to use Shrek when marketing HD DVD. Anyone who thinks that studios have not been given incentives to side with BD is naive. Both camps are as bad as one-another.
First of all, both players can have their firmware updated by the internet, so both can be up to date, including PIP for Blu-ray and improved loading times for the Toshiba.
That may be true of the PS3 (although it's unconfirmed at this moment in time), but it's definitely not true of the vast majority of standalone BD players.
Quote: There are many more discs available for blu-ray which is a major factor in which discs I buy because both formats look stunning and both players have upscalers via HDMI.
I don't think there are 'many more'. There are more, but it's not as many as the BD camp would have you believe. Of course it depends which markets you look at.
Quote: I haven't had a problem with region coding on either format so that hasn't been an issue.
HD DVD doesn't have regional coding for the HD DVD content, just for the SD content. If you haven't got a problem with regional coding I can only assume that you don't buy discs from other countries. If you do, you will have a problem in the future because BD codes both.
Quote: when offered a choice of both (not possible with some films) to buy by looking at the cover art and deciding if the red band at the top or the blue band at the top looks best.
That's, well, insane. So you might possibly buy the BD of 300 if you thought the blue cover looked better than the red of HD DVD, even though the HD DVD version is superior?
Quote: Paramount got huge 'promotional' funds from Microsoft and Toshiba to drop their support of blu-ray.
I believe the Paramount deal had something to do with the rights to use Shrek when marketing HD DVD. Anyone who thinks that studios have not been given incentives to side with BD is naive. Both camps are as bad as one-another.
Whoah, hang on a minute there Chris. Let me respond to your points there.
I understand that about the BD players and my PS3 but as I said at the beginning of my post, I was referring to a PS3 blu-ray player and a Toshiba HD-E1. I'm also well aware that PIP is not possible with earlier model BD players but as I stated in my post, it IS possible with PS3 because of the possibility to update the firmware.
I concede that you are correct when you refute my statement that blu-ray is more prolific. A quick search on dvd empire found that there are 443 on blu-ray and 404 on HD. But if you walk into HMV on Oxford Street you will see two racks of blu-ray and one of HD-DVD, same goes for Zaavi (Virgin).
You assumption that I don't buy from other territories is incorrect. MOST of my discs are from abroad. I have 7 UK releases on 5 of which are blue and 2 are red and 9 from the US with 5 blue and 4 red.
I'm glad you picked up on the insanity of having this format war prolonged. That was EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.
Incidentially, I DO own 300 on HD-DVD because I was aware of lack of PIP in the blu-ray disc. I have the Shining on HD because I thought red looked better at the top of the artwork and 2001 on blu-ray for the same reason BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE TO BE NO DIFFERENCE in presentation on my players other than the cover artwork. Again this was a point I was trying to make about the insanity of this supposedly consumer driven format.
I'm not going to get into a arguement about Shrek or anything else. I won't disagree on that matter because I know nothing about it. But I would be interested to hear why you think blu-ray is as bad as Microsoft and Toshiba's HD-DVD.
I understand that about the BD players and my PS3 but as I said at the beginning of my post, I was referring to a PS3 blu-ray player and a Toshiba HD-E1. I'm also well aware that PIP is not possible with earlier model BD players but as I stated in my post, it IS possible with PS3 because of the possibility to update the firmware.
I concede that you are correct when you refute my statement that blu-ray is more prolific. A quick search on dvd empire found that there are 443 on blu-ray and 404 on HD. But if you walk into HMV on Oxford Street you will see two racks of blu-ray and one of HD-DVD, same goes for Zaavi (Virgin).
You assumption that I don't buy from other territories is incorrect. MOST of my discs are from abroad. I have 7 UK releases on 5 of which are blue and 2 are red and 9 from the US with 5 blue and 4 red.
I'm glad you picked up on the insanity of having this format war prolonged. That was EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.
Incidentially, I DO own 300 on HD-DVD because I was aware of lack of PIP in the blu-ray disc. I have the Shining on HD because I thought red looked better at the top of the artwork and 2001 on blu-ray for the same reason BECAUSE I BELIEVE THERE TO BE NO DIFFERENCE in presentation on my players other than the cover artwork. Again this was a point I was trying to make about the insanity of this supposedly consumer driven format.
I'm not going to get into a arguement about Shrek or anything else. I won't disagree on that matter because I know nothing about it. But I would be interested to hear why you think blu-ray is as bad as Microsoft and Toshiba's HD-DVD.
Thanks for the review. I am currently upgrading to next gen. We got a HDTV on the way to our house soon. I plan on getting a PS3 later on this month and I already own a 360 so I might just buy the HD add on so I can haev both players incase the war ends in favor of one side.
I only own 2 High Def movies which would be The Prestige(Blu Ray) and Children Of Men(HD DVD Combo) Ive watched them each and I think the picture is great on both machines. I really like the fact that HD has the combo with DVD as most of my friends or family that watches my DVDs dont have any High Def systems. I do really wish HD could fit both movies on one side so we dont have the cheese "flip over" disc. I really enjoy disc art and I find when theres no art the disc looks really boring.
I only own 2 High Def movies which would be The Prestige(Blu Ray) and Children Of Men(HD DVD Combo) Ive watched them each and I think the picture is great on both machines. I really like the fact that HD has the combo with DVD as most of my friends or family that watches my DVDs dont have any High Def systems. I do really wish HD could fit both movies on one side so we dont have the cheese "flip over" disc. I really enjoy disc art and I find when theres no art the disc looks really boring.
I also have both. I have the ps3 and the toshiba HDa2 player. it takes a bit longer for the toshiba to start up. once it gets going its good. the ps3 is also very fast. its faster then the stand alone players. my problem is that bluray has more titles that I want. like spidey trilogy, fifth element, the fly remake, die hard, etc. I have more bluray titles then HD DVD.
the spidey trilogy was all regions. I have the region 4 of spidey 3. worked fine on my ps3.
Jacob
the spidey trilogy was all regions. I have the region 4 of spidey 3. worked fine on my ps3.
Jacob
Just the same ol' stuff I've read everywhere else. Nothing new pointed out here.
Excellent piece, specially because you stayed neutral and true to your thoughts.
It's difficult to say which (or even if) format will win, specially in its first year. Blu-ray has the edge over HD DVD, but like gaming consoles, both can coexist, specially by having different studios exclusively supporting one format (just like you can only have Halo on the XBOX).
As for me, I don't have an HDTV yet (the one we had broke and we haven't had a chance to fix it yet) and I don't yet see myself buying a 40+ LCD in the near future (maybe more than six months). I did buy an HD DVD player because of the $98 thing at Wal-Mart and recently bought Transformers just because it was on sale.
I have a theory on which there is a war so that neither wins and digital downloading wins, but they call me crazy...later on that.
I love movies, and for right now, I am going to stick with DVD, though I drool everytime I pass thru Cars and Ratatouille on Blu-ray. If they lower their prices to DVD standards (which in my opinion have gone up), the minority of us who are into this, will start buying, specially since nowadays the hi-def discs have more special features, which is what I think the minority of us like about DVDs of any kind.
Oh, yeah. Hate flippers. Hate those horrible cases where you try to get out the DVD and the DVD cracks, or those double disc Paramount cases. Hate things not being anamorphically enhanced. And I hate not having a DTS track on the movies that need it the most (hear me Pirates??)...
It's difficult to say which (or even if) format will win, specially in its first year. Blu-ray has the edge over HD DVD, but like gaming consoles, both can coexist, specially by having different studios exclusively supporting one format (just like you can only have Halo on the XBOX).
As for me, I don't have an HDTV yet (the one we had broke and we haven't had a chance to fix it yet) and I don't yet see myself buying a 40+ LCD in the near future (maybe more than six months). I did buy an HD DVD player because of the $98 thing at Wal-Mart and recently bought Transformers just because it was on sale.
I have a theory on which there is a war so that neither wins and digital downloading wins, but they call me crazy...later on that.
I love movies, and for right now, I am going to stick with DVD, though I drool everytime I pass thru Cars and Ratatouille on Blu-ray. If they lower their prices to DVD standards (which in my opinion have gone up), the minority of us who are into this, will start buying, specially since nowadays the hi-def discs have more special features, which is what I think the minority of us like about DVDs of any kind.
Oh, yeah. Hate flippers. Hate those horrible cases where you try to get out the DVD and the DVD cracks, or those double disc Paramount cases. Hate things not being anamorphically enhanced. And I hate not having a DTS track on the movies that need it the most (hear me Pirates??)...
I don't understand this, one of the main attractions to this new technology is the storage capacity, but when I see look in retail stores such as bestbuy or Fye and see Mission Impossible 3 (2-disc set)on blu ray or a two disc set of the Transformers on HDDVD something just doesn't seem right, it just doesn't make sense. This was supposed to be one of the main selling points of this new technology, finally a technology that can have one film with the ultimate picture and sound with bonus features on 1 disc. I mean does it really matter if Blu ray might be upgrading to a 300gb disc in the future if there not even going to utilize it? It's pretty much wasted potential, anyway there is not format war, blu ray and HDDVD is not mainstream and probably will never be. No one is willing to shell out 38.99 or 40 buck for a damn movie, it's ridiculous I'll stick to my 5.1 DTS Surround sound system with my Criterion Collection and Im set for life...but an awesome review on the techhnology
JimLee41 wrote: I don't understand this, one of the main attractions to this new technology is the storage capacity, but when I see look in retail stores such as bestbuy or Fye and see Mission Impossible 3 (2-disc set)on blu ray or a two disc set of the Transformers on HDDVD something just doesn't seem right, it just doesn't make sense. This was supposed to be one of the main selling points of this new technology, finally a technology that can have one film with the ultimate picture and sound with bonus features on 1 disc. I mean does it really matter if Blu ray might be upgrading to a 300gb disc in the future if there not even going to utilize it? It's pretty much wasted potential, anyway there is not format war, blu ray and HDDVD is not mainstream and probably will never be. No one is willing to shell out 38.99 or 40 buck for a damn movie, it's ridiculous I'll stick to my 5.1 DTS Surround sound system with my Criterion Collection and Im set for life...but an awesome review on the techhnology
well you gotta remember, there was a time when regular dvds cost over 30 dollars and sometimes 40. so prices will probably eventually lower to "dvd standards"
something that always bugs me in these "format war" conversations is the comments by some that they dont wanna lose their dvd collection or have to start over. i didnt think that was an issue at all, arent both blu-ray and HDDVD players backwards compatible?
im personally waiting to see if there's a winner but should there be someday...i wont start rebuying all my dvds on the winning format. i'll just start buying my movies from that point in whichever format is around.
this isnt like the switch from VHS to DVD, you dont and wont have to rebuy everything. i mean sure if you're some super duper tech person who NEEDS everything perfect and crystal clear maybe you will...but everyone else, if ur happy with ur dvds then keep em.
but yes a very nice article. im gonna get a PS3 soonish most likely so if blu-ray wins then i'm set. but i dont plan on buying any HD player or even the 360 add on. i dont deny how much better the picture is on HD/blu-ray but DVDs are more than good enough for me. i already have a 42 inch HDTV but no 5.1 speakers or anything, i just use the tv's speakers. and again, thats good enough for me. well ok, they have all that PLUS 5.1 upstairs so im sorta spoiled but thats besides the points..lol
well you gotta remember, there was a time when regular dvds cost over 30 dollars and sometimes 40. so prices will probably eventually lower to "dvd standards"
something that always bugs me in these "format war" conversations is the comments by some that they dont wanna lose their dvd collection or have to start over. i didnt think that was an issue at all, arent both blu-ray and HDDVD players backwards compatible?
im personally waiting to see if there's a winner but should there be someday...i wont start rebuying all my dvds on the winning format. i'll just start buying my movies from that point in whichever format is around.
this isnt like the switch from VHS to DVD, you dont and wont have to rebuy everything. i mean sure if you're some super duper tech person who NEEDS everything perfect and crystal clear maybe you will...but everyone else, if ur happy with ur dvds then keep em.
but yes a very nice article. im gonna get a PS3 soonish most likely so if blu-ray wins then i'm set. but i dont plan on buying any HD player or even the 360 add on. i dont deny how much better the picture is on HD/blu-ray but DVDs are more than good enough for me. i already have a 42 inch HDTV but no 5.1 speakers or anything, i just use the tv's speakers. and again, thats good enough for me. well ok, they have all that PLUS 5.1 upstairs so im sorta spoiled but thats besides the points..lol
$40 bucks for a movie?!, i just bought 4 hd dvds from amazon for $45. By one get one free, finally hd dvd is having these sales to catch up with blu-rays number skewing sales.
The fact that first gen blue-ray players are now obsolete and will not play features on new discs is outrageous and sony should be ashamed. These people payed upwards of $1,000 for a player and they cant upgrade to play picture-in-picture or hd audio like dts-hd MA. Thats a $1,000 paperweight.
As long as i can have Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, and Indiana Jones. Im happy and blu-ray ray wont get em! for now!
The fact that first gen blue-ray players are now obsolete and will not play features on new discs is outrageous and sony should be ashamed. These people payed upwards of $1,000 for a player and they cant upgrade to play picture-in-picture or hd audio like dts-hd MA. Thats a $1,000 paperweight.
As long as i can have Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, and Indiana Jones. Im happy and blu-ray ray wont get em! for now!
I think the porn industry is going to have a lot to do with it. As far as I'm aware they are currently heading down the HD-DVD road, which may swing things in that format's favour. Same as the internet was driven in the early days by porn, we may see it happen again in the HD Format war.
Interesting times ahead.
Interesting times ahead.
Hamisht wrote: Just the same ol' stuff I've read everywhere else. Nothing new pointed out here.
..and yet you were compelled to write something. Classy.
Pete has a point on the porn industry, though I've never understood the appeal of HD porn. Isn't the point that it's a fantasy and we don't want to see every. single. detail? *shiver*
..and yet you were compelled to write something. Classy.
Pete has a point on the porn industry, though I've never understood the appeal of HD porn. Isn't the point that it's a fantasy and we don't want to see every. single. detail? *shiver*
I went HD DVD soley for the region 0 aspect.
Gabe Powers wrote: Hamisht wrote: Just the same ol' stuff I've read everywhere else. Nothing new pointed out here.
..and yet you were compelled to write something. Classy.
compelled to voice my opinion, just like you are.
..and yet you were compelled to write something. Classy.
compelled to voice my opinion, just like you are.
Another well written and interesting article there Chris. Well done!
Quote: For example, the average loading time for a film on my machine is around thirty seconds, but throw some BD-J features into the mix (discs such as Pirates of the Caribbean and FF2: Rise of the Silver Surfer) and the loading times rise to anywhere between two and three minutes!
THREE minutes! My god I'm pleased my first BD Player will be Profile 1.1 compatible.
Quote: Indeed, in a recent interview a pair of Dolby engineers discussed the lack of TrueHD on the flagship Transformers HD DVD, proclaiming the Dolby Digital Plus track to be ‘audibly transparent’ to the studio master. Are they to be believed?
In my opinion that's a complete cop out to not give the consumer the choice of which they prefer. The same applies for Warner's stance at not supporting DTS on DVDs.
Quote: Of course many smaller studios are also backing the formats, but it would seem that Blu-ray also has the edge there (at least in my experience).
From my experience it's HD-DVD that has more of the smaller labels behind it not BD. There are loads of examples of European HD-DVD exclusives of American BD titles.
Quote: Of course my opinion counts for very little in a battle that will be fought and won in the USA, a territory largely unconcerned with multi-region capability because of the size and diversity of the domestic market.
I do find it strange 8-10 years after DVD most North Americans to this day are scarred or cannot be bothered to try and imported DVD. The idea of importing an Asian Region A BD (which would work just fine) let alone a Region B or C BD simply will never cross most North Ameticans minds.
I would disagree the domestic American market is diverse though. There are just as many UK exclusives are there are American ones. To not miss out you have to go Multi-region.
Thankfully in the case of Blu-ray if you get a Region A Player you're "mostly" covered by BDs which are Region 0 and those that are Region A. There simply aren't that many important Region B companies.
I believe Entertainment in Video and Fox are it, the latter obviously releases on Region A anyway.
Quote: The fact that first gen blue-ray players are now obsolete and will not play features on new discs is outrageous and sony should be ashamed. These people payed upwards of $1,000 for a player and they cant upgrade to play picture-in-picture or hd audio like dts-hd MA. Thats a $1,000 paperweight.
On the whole you're correct but you're exaggerating a bit. A Profile 1.0 Player will never be obsolete and certainly isn't a paper weight. Standard extras (which make up the bulk of extras and probably always will) will continue to work as will crucially the movie.
As to DTS-HD well that affects HD-DVD Players just as much in equal measure. Compatible Players just coming out now and lets not forget the DTS Core in DTS-HD is usually Full-rate 1.5Mbps DTS which still sounds amazing to me on DVDs.
Quote: If nothing else it will give you more time to save your pennies for that all-singing, all-dancing, dual-format player!
LG call them the Multi-Blu Player (formerly Super Multi-Blu), Samsung the Duo HD Player whatever you call it Combo Players are the future!
Quote: For example, the average loading time for a film on my machine is around thirty seconds, but throw some BD-J features into the mix (discs such as Pirates of the Caribbean and FF2: Rise of the Silver Surfer) and the loading times rise to anywhere between two and three minutes!
THREE minutes! My god I'm pleased my first BD Player will be Profile 1.1 compatible.
Quote: Indeed, in a recent interview a pair of Dolby engineers discussed the lack of TrueHD on the flagship Transformers HD DVD, proclaiming the Dolby Digital Plus track to be ‘audibly transparent’ to the studio master. Are they to be believed?
In my opinion that's a complete cop out to not give the consumer the choice of which they prefer. The same applies for Warner's stance at not supporting DTS on DVDs.
Quote: Of course many smaller studios are also backing the formats, but it would seem that Blu-ray also has the edge there (at least in my experience).
From my experience it's HD-DVD that has more of the smaller labels behind it not BD. There are loads of examples of European HD-DVD exclusives of American BD titles.
Quote: Of course my opinion counts for very little in a battle that will be fought and won in the USA, a territory largely unconcerned with multi-region capability because of the size and diversity of the domestic market.
I do find it strange 8-10 years after DVD most North Americans to this day are scarred or cannot be bothered to try and imported DVD. The idea of importing an Asian Region A BD (which would work just fine) let alone a Region B or C BD simply will never cross most North Ameticans minds.
I would disagree the domestic American market is diverse though. There are just as many UK exclusives are there are American ones. To not miss out you have to go Multi-region.
Thankfully in the case of Blu-ray if you get a Region A Player you're "mostly" covered by BDs which are Region 0 and those that are Region A. There simply aren't that many important Region B companies.
I believe Entertainment in Video and Fox are it, the latter obviously releases on Region A anyway.
Quote: The fact that first gen blue-ray players are now obsolete and will not play features on new discs is outrageous and sony should be ashamed. These people payed upwards of $1,000 for a player and they cant upgrade to play picture-in-picture or hd audio like dts-hd MA. Thats a $1,000 paperweight.
On the whole you're correct but you're exaggerating a bit. A Profile 1.0 Player will never be obsolete and certainly isn't a paper weight. Standard extras (which make up the bulk of extras and probably always will) will continue to work as will crucially the movie.
As to DTS-HD well that affects HD-DVD Players just as much in equal measure. Compatible Players just coming out now and lets not forget the DTS Core in DTS-HD is usually Full-rate 1.5Mbps DTS which still sounds amazing to me on DVDs.
Quote: If nothing else it will give you more time to save your pennies for that all-singing, all-dancing, dual-format player!
LG call them the Multi-Blu Player (formerly Super Multi-Blu), Samsung the Duo HD Player whatever you call it Combo Players are the future!
I went Blu-Ray because of "Lost" and the fact that if Blu-Ray does die out in the long run, at least I can play games on the system.
Call me crazy, but "Through the Looking Glass" in 1080p made me soil myself all over again.
Call me crazy, but "Through the Looking Glass" in 1080p made me soil myself all over again.
Wrymouth wrote: Plus CLOVERFIELD, IRON MAN, INDIANA JONES, THE DARK KNIGHT, all going to HD DVD only it looks. Difference in picture quality is minimal when you see '300' on BR and HDDVD on 2 HD sets side by side. First off, Warner is currently format neutral and despite what Chris says I think Warner will undoubtedly make a choice by the beginning of 2008 whether or not to stay format neutral or pick a side. In any case The Dark Knight will NOT be HD-DVD exclusive unless Warner chooses to go that way.
And Steven Spielberg has said that he only wants his films released on Blu-Ray. The studios said they'd cross that bridge when they come to it, but I wouldn't hold my breath for an HD-DVD Indy -- push comes to shove I imagine the studio will just not release it in hi-def at all, like Star Wars and the original Indys.
And Steven Spielberg has said that he only wants his films released on Blu-Ray. The studios said they'd cross that bridge when they come to it, but I wouldn't hold my breath for an HD-DVD Indy -- push comes to shove I imagine the studio will just not release it in hi-def at all, like Star Wars and the original Indys.
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