Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: The Anti-Fanboy View
Chris Gould tries to take an unbiased look at the new high-definition formats
As a new convert to the world of high-definition I thought it might be a good idea to write a short article detailing my experiences so far. Thankfully I’ve been lucky enough to upgrade to a ‘Full HD’ set-up, which has allowed me to appreciate the improved audio-visual experience offered by both Blu-ray and HD DVD while remaining format-neutral. Let’s begin by examining the pros and cons of each format, as observed by me in the course of everyday use.
In the interests of fair play (and to minimise the inevitable accusations of bias) let’s start alphabetically, with Blu-ray Disc. I’ve been very impressed with the quality of the titles I’ve seen on Sony’s format, especially from relatively recent films such as Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. The level of detail in films encoded at 1080p far surpasses that of standard-definition DVD, allowing you to pick out elements that would ordinarily pass you by. Audio is also impressive, with engaging soundtracks encoded in lossless formats like PCM or DTS-HD Master Audio. However, it’s not all rosy in the Blu-ray garden.
One of the biggest selling points of the new formats is their ability to handle high-def audio. For Blu-ray this means either PCM, DTS-HD Master Audio or, less commonly, Dolby TrueHD. While all of these sound great on paper, things are a little more complicated than the specs suggest. At the time of writing I don’t know of a single Blu-ray player that can internally decode DTS-HD (either ‘lossless’ Master Audio or the lossy High Resolution variant). Instead people will hear the legacy Core track, which should still sound great, but which isn’t high-def audio. Thankfully a large number of discs include uncompressed PCM soundtracks, which are identical to the studio master but eat up disc space that could be used for other things.
The audio issues are annoying, but my biggest criticism of the format is that it is not standardised. My BD player is what they call a ‘Profile 1.0’ machine, which means it is capable of playing back Blu-ray movies and standard features but it is incapable of handling the more advanced features that will be available on future releases. For this you will need a Profile 1.1 player, which will allow you to enjoy picture-in-picture commentaries and other advanced BD-J (Blu-ray Java) features. Another problem with Profile 1.0 machines is that the already long loading times of Blu-ray are exacerbated when players encounter discs with even the most basic of BD-J content.
For example, the average loading time for a film on my machine is around thirty seconds, but throw some BD-J features into the mix (discs such as Pirates of the Caribbean and FF2: Rise of the Silver Surfer) and the loading times rise to anywhere between two and three minutes! I don't know about you, but I find this situation totally unacceptable and can’t believe that the technology was launched with what amounts to built-in obsolescence. I’m not even going to discuss Profile 2.0, which has already been announced...
Another major issue I have with Blu-ray is the regional coding. Although simplified to three regions (from DVD’s six), it is unlikely to be cracked in the way that DVD regional protection was. I wouldn’t have such a big problem with regional coding if it was used to protect the theatrical release dates of new releases (after all, that’s what it’s supposed to be for), but many studios still insist on coding catalogue titles. I’m talking about twenty year old films here (sometimes older). The only reason for the coding of such titles can be to control the price in various markets, but it also means that some territories have access to a much wider selection of titles than others. I like to watch Asian cinema, but this could become very difficult for me in the future, at least on Blu-ray.
Other than that, I’m fairly happy with the format. There are some minor issues that I find bothersome, such as navigation speed and the lack of resume support when you press the stop button, but these problems are not exclusive to Blu-ray.
As we move on to HD DVD many of the positive points raised above still stand, but there are a whole new set of negatives. The most widely publicised of these is probably the disc capacity issue. Whereas Blu-ray has a dual-layer disc capacity of 50GB, HD DVD is currently restricted to 30GB. This means less room for content, be it the main feature or bonus material, which is usually presented in standard definition. More space may come in the future with triple-layer discs, but whether these will be compatible with existing hardware remains to be seen and the Blu-ray camp is already promising 200GB discs...
One of the most obvious side-effects of the relative lack of disc space is that many HD DVD titles lack lossless soundtracks (and I don’t know of any with uncompressed PCM). However, I’ve recently read a number of articles and listened to a number of podcasts that suggest the lack of TrueHD is not necessarily down to storage limitations, but rather conscious choice by the content designers. Indeed, in a recent interview a pair of Dolby engineers discussed the lack of TrueHD on the flagship Transformers HD DVD, proclaiming the Dolby Digital Plus track to be ‘audibly transparent’ to the studio master. Are they to be believed? Thankfully the interactive side of things is pretty much sorted, as HD DVD was launched with support for interactive features from the get-go.
HD DVD also has less studio support than Blu-ray, which translates to a smaller selection of available titles. At present only two of the major studios are exclusively supporting HD DVD (Paramount and Universal), with Warner opting to cover both formats. This is in stark contrast to Blu-ray, which has exclusive backing from Sony (of course), Fox, Disney (and its subsidiaries) and Lionsgate. Of course many smaller studios are also backing the formats, but it would seem that Blu-ray also has the edge there (at least in my experience).
Other, less obvious ‘deficiencies’ include a slightly less robust manufacturing process, which makes HD DVD discs more susceptible to dirt and scratches than Blu-ray discs, and a lower maximum bitrate for DVD video. Whether these are particularly big problems is debatable, but they are worth mentioning all the same. Other than that my experience was much the same as Blu-ray, with only slight annoyances like the lack of resume support and extended loading times and navigational delays (although HD DVD is quicker than Blu-ray in these respects).
At the moment both formats have compatibility issues, which usually manifest as the inability to play newer titles, but these can be addressed with firmware updates. Unfortunately it is impossible to get around the hardware restrictions of Profile 1.0 players, so all early-adopters will have to buy a new player if they want to enjoy the full Blu-ray experience. This is a particularly bitter pill to swallow considering the relatively high cost of Blu-ray hardware, and the main driving force behind my next statement.
If studio allegiances were not an issue and I was forced to choose between the formats at this moment in time, I would probably side with HD DVD. In my experience the hardware is more mature, the software offers more in the way of interactivity and, crucially, it does not enforce regional coding. As production costs fall storage will be less of an issue, either because of multi-layered discs or because we will start to see more multi-disc sets (as is the norm with DVD), which will close the gap even further.
Of course my opinion counts for very little in a battle that will be fought and won in the USA, a territory largely unconcerned with multi-region capability because of the size and diversity of the domestic market. With backing from so many of the major players, superior software sales and a larger installed user base courtesy of the PS3, the odds would seem to be stacked in Blu-ray’s favour. Certainly, given a level playing field Sony's format would seem to be the logical choice on paper, but I wouldn’t write off HD DVD just yet. I happen to think the formats are set to coexist for some time, for better or worse.
However, I personally feel that both formats are premature. The vast majority of people are simply not concerned about high-definition, be it Blu-ray, HD DVD or broadcast television. I know only a handful of people who can afford to own an HDTV and of those even fewer have them hooked up to a high-definition source. In fact, most people I've spoken to outside of the 'DVD community' don't have the first clue about either format, which is a trend that's repeated by store-workers and, yes, even the manufacturers if the conversations I've had with various technical help-desks are any indicator (they know who they are).
Sales would seem to reflect my opinion, with combined Blu-ray and HD DVD figures currently accounting for less than two percent of the total DVD market! At least some of the blame for the lacklustre sales figures must be attributed to the ongoing format war, which isn't helped by the two camps taking every opportunity to hurl insults or massage sales figures to 'prove' that the other is about to fail. Fanboys from both sides banging on about attach rates and the like seem to have forgotten what the formats are meant for—watching films. When it comes to that, Blu-ray and HD DVD offer a virtually identical experience; albeit one that is streets ahead of standard-definition in terms of quality. My advice to you is to hold off for a while longer until hardware is standardised and prices start to fall. If nothing else it will give you more time to save your pennies for that all-singing, all-dancing, dual-format player!
Editorial by Chris Gould
In the interests of fair play (and to minimise the inevitable accusations of bias) let’s start alphabetically, with Blu-ray Disc. I’ve been very impressed with the quality of the titles I’ve seen on Sony’s format, especially from relatively recent films such as Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. The level of detail in films encoded at 1080p far surpasses that of standard-definition DVD, allowing you to pick out elements that would ordinarily pass you by. Audio is also impressive, with engaging soundtracks encoded in lossless formats like PCM or DTS-HD Master Audio. However, it’s not all rosy in the Blu-ray garden.
One of the biggest selling points of the new formats is their ability to handle high-def audio. For Blu-ray this means either PCM, DTS-HD Master Audio or, less commonly, Dolby TrueHD. While all of these sound great on paper, things are a little more complicated than the specs suggest. At the time of writing I don’t know of a single Blu-ray player that can internally decode DTS-HD (either ‘lossless’ Master Audio or the lossy High Resolution variant). Instead people will hear the legacy Core track, which should still sound great, but which isn’t high-def audio. Thankfully a large number of discs include uncompressed PCM soundtracks, which are identical to the studio master but eat up disc space that could be used for other things.
The audio issues are annoying, but my biggest criticism of the format is that it is not standardised. My BD player is what they call a ‘Profile 1.0’ machine, which means it is capable of playing back Blu-ray movies and standard features but it is incapable of handling the more advanced features that will be available on future releases. For this you will need a Profile 1.1 player, which will allow you to enjoy picture-in-picture commentaries and other advanced BD-J (Blu-ray Java) features. Another problem with Profile 1.0 machines is that the already long loading times of Blu-ray are exacerbated when players encounter discs with even the most basic of BD-J content.
For example, the average loading time for a film on my machine is around thirty seconds, but throw some BD-J features into the mix (discs such as Pirates of the Caribbean and FF2: Rise of the Silver Surfer) and the loading times rise to anywhere between two and three minutes! I don't know about you, but I find this situation totally unacceptable and can’t believe that the technology was launched with what amounts to built-in obsolescence. I’m not even going to discuss Profile 2.0, which has already been announced...
Another major issue I have with Blu-ray is the regional coding. Although simplified to three regions (from DVD’s six), it is unlikely to be cracked in the way that DVD regional protection was. I wouldn’t have such a big problem with regional coding if it was used to protect the theatrical release dates of new releases (after all, that’s what it’s supposed to be for), but many studios still insist on coding catalogue titles. I’m talking about twenty year old films here (sometimes older). The only reason for the coding of such titles can be to control the price in various markets, but it also means that some territories have access to a much wider selection of titles than others. I like to watch Asian cinema, but this could become very difficult for me in the future, at least on Blu-ray.
Other than that, I’m fairly happy with the format. There are some minor issues that I find bothersome, such as navigation speed and the lack of resume support when you press the stop button, but these problems are not exclusive to Blu-ray.
As we move on to HD DVD many of the positive points raised above still stand, but there are a whole new set of negatives. The most widely publicised of these is probably the disc capacity issue. Whereas Blu-ray has a dual-layer disc capacity of 50GB, HD DVD is currently restricted to 30GB. This means less room for content, be it the main feature or bonus material, which is usually presented in standard definition. More space may come in the future with triple-layer discs, but whether these will be compatible with existing hardware remains to be seen and the Blu-ray camp is already promising 200GB discs...
One of the most obvious side-effects of the relative lack of disc space is that many HD DVD titles lack lossless soundtracks (and I don’t know of any with uncompressed PCM). However, I’ve recently read a number of articles and listened to a number of podcasts that suggest the lack of TrueHD is not necessarily down to storage limitations, but rather conscious choice by the content designers. Indeed, in a recent interview a pair of Dolby engineers discussed the lack of TrueHD on the flagship Transformers HD DVD, proclaiming the Dolby Digital Plus track to be ‘audibly transparent’ to the studio master. Are they to be believed? Thankfully the interactive side of things is pretty much sorted, as HD DVD was launched with support for interactive features from the get-go.
HD DVD also has less studio support than Blu-ray, which translates to a smaller selection of available titles. At present only two of the major studios are exclusively supporting HD DVD (Paramount and Universal), with Warner opting to cover both formats. This is in stark contrast to Blu-ray, which has exclusive backing from Sony (of course), Fox, Disney (and its subsidiaries) and Lionsgate. Of course many smaller studios are also backing the formats, but it would seem that Blu-ray also has the edge there (at least in my experience).
Other, less obvious ‘deficiencies’ include a slightly less robust manufacturing process, which makes HD DVD discs more susceptible to dirt and scratches than Blu-ray discs, and a lower maximum bitrate for DVD video. Whether these are particularly big problems is debatable, but they are worth mentioning all the same. Other than that my experience was much the same as Blu-ray, with only slight annoyances like the lack of resume support and extended loading times and navigational delays (although HD DVD is quicker than Blu-ray in these respects).
Conclusion
At the moment both formats have compatibility issues, which usually manifest as the inability to play newer titles, but these can be addressed with firmware updates. Unfortunately it is impossible to get around the hardware restrictions of Profile 1.0 players, so all early-adopters will have to buy a new player if they want to enjoy the full Blu-ray experience. This is a particularly bitter pill to swallow considering the relatively high cost of Blu-ray hardware, and the main driving force behind my next statement.
If studio allegiances were not an issue and I was forced to choose between the formats at this moment in time, I would probably side with HD DVD. In my experience the hardware is more mature, the software offers more in the way of interactivity and, crucially, it does not enforce regional coding. As production costs fall storage will be less of an issue, either because of multi-layered discs or because we will start to see more multi-disc sets (as is the norm with DVD), which will close the gap even further.
Of course my opinion counts for very little in a battle that will be fought and won in the USA, a territory largely unconcerned with multi-region capability because of the size and diversity of the domestic market. With backing from so many of the major players, superior software sales and a larger installed user base courtesy of the PS3, the odds would seem to be stacked in Blu-ray’s favour. Certainly, given a level playing field Sony's format would seem to be the logical choice on paper, but I wouldn’t write off HD DVD just yet. I happen to think the formats are set to coexist for some time, for better or worse.
However, I personally feel that both formats are premature. The vast majority of people are simply not concerned about high-definition, be it Blu-ray, HD DVD or broadcast television. I know only a handful of people who can afford to own an HDTV and of those even fewer have them hooked up to a high-definition source. In fact, most people I've spoken to outside of the 'DVD community' don't have the first clue about either format, which is a trend that's repeated by store-workers and, yes, even the manufacturers if the conversations I've had with various technical help-desks are any indicator (they know who they are).
Sales would seem to reflect my opinion, with combined Blu-ray and HD DVD figures currently accounting for less than two percent of the total DVD market! At least some of the blame for the lacklustre sales figures must be attributed to the ongoing format war, which isn't helped by the two camps taking every opportunity to hurl insults or massage sales figures to 'prove' that the other is about to fail. Fanboys from both sides banging on about attach rates and the like seem to have forgotten what the formats are meant for—watching films. When it comes to that, Blu-ray and HD DVD offer a virtually identical experience; albeit one that is streets ahead of standard-definition in terms of quality. My advice to you is to hold off for a while longer until hardware is standardised and prices start to fall. If nothing else it will give you more time to save your pennies for that all-singing, all-dancing, dual-format player!
Editorial by Chris Gould
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Firstly, learn to use the quote tags, it will make your posts more coherent.
Fettastic wrote: "Amazing 24p True Cinema output and cinema-tuned picture presets allow you to see movies exactly as the director intended. Featuring LPCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD audio decoding for ultra-realistic sound, this player is also a treat for the ears."
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-S500-1080p-Blu-R...
I’ll investigate that, and if it does I’ll add the line ‘but the Sony BDP-S500 may do the job’ to help people out. However, a very quick look at an American AV forum suggest that it can only send DTS-HD over bitstream, not decode it internally (at least that's what the owners are saying). That could have been before a firmware update though.
Quote: You said Blu-ray was slower than HD DVD. That is simply not true and you have no basis to make that claim.
Do you have a reading problem? I am basing the statement on personal experience? What better basis is there? The article is about my experience using both formats. Jesus.
Quote: Old hardware like the most recent generation of player the HD-A3? Okay.
Confused? You most certainly are. The most recent generation over here includes the EP30 and EP35, which are called the A30 and A35 in the US. Both offer everything you mentioned and more. But hey, why post facts when you can just ignore them if it suits your needs?
Chris Gould wrote: Tell me what the maximum bitrate of DTS-HD HR is.
Quote: 1.5mbps
Try again.
Chris Gould wrote: Now tell me what the maximum bitrate that can be sent over legacy optical/coax.
Quote: 1.5mbps
At least you got that right. It is a problem because it is mandatory for all HD DVD players to decode TrueHD internally, thus offering full bandwidth audio to everyone. Because DTS-HD support isn’t mandatory on BD most players can’t do it, which means no full bandwidth audio from DTS-HD tracks. Most HD DVD titles use TrueHD, whereas most BD titles use DTS-HD. See where I’m going with this? Granted a lot of BD titles use PCM, but equally many do not.
Quote: Heck, the XBOX add-on can't output any HD audio at all, even if you have the HDMI elite model. If you want to talk about audio restrictions, compare apples to apples and include the add-on which is many times inferior to the PS3.
You said it yourself, it’s an add-on. The PS3 was built with BD in mind, the 360 wasn’t. It’s a games console first and an HD DVD player second. The only reason the PS3 is so good at the price is because Sony sell it at a loss and recoups their losses on the games. Standalone manufacturers can’t do that. Anyway, you’re the one that keeps bringing up consoles, not me.
Quote: This makes it sound as though blu-ray movies will no longer work in 1.0 players. the fact is that all Blu-ray movies will work in all 1.0 profile players from now until the end of time. the only difference is that p.i.p. and internet downloading won't work. since most people are only interested in the movies anyway, I doubt this is as big a problem as some are making it out to be.
No it doesn’t, it makes it sound as though people will have to buy a new player to enjoy all of the features on 1.1/2.0 discs, which is true. It’s funny how the BD fanboys (of which you are clearly one) always go on about how PiP and interactive features are not important when their machines can’t handle them. Wait until 1.1 is the norm, I bet they’ll be using them as another means to attack HD DVD.
Quote: And of course you fail to mention that it is unlikely that 51GB discs will work in any HD DVD player currently on the market which seems like a far bigger deal to me.
I’ll ignore the fact that Toshiba are saying they most likely will be compatible... Taken from my article: ‘More space may come in the future with triple-layer discs, but whether these will be compatible with existing hardware remains to be seen…’ So, you were saying something about failing to do what?
Come back when you know what you're talking about and can make a persuasive case citing credible sources, instead of just reeling off some things you think you know. DTS-HD HR max bitrate 1.5Mbps? DTS has other ideas.
Fettastic wrote: "Amazing 24p True Cinema output and cinema-tuned picture presets allow you to see movies exactly as the director intended. Featuring LPCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD audio decoding for ultra-realistic sound, this player is also a treat for the ears."
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-S500-1080p-Blu-R...
I’ll investigate that, and if it does I’ll add the line ‘but the Sony BDP-S500 may do the job’ to help people out. However, a very quick look at an American AV forum suggest that it can only send DTS-HD over bitstream, not decode it internally (at least that's what the owners are saying). That could have been before a firmware update though.
Quote: You said Blu-ray was slower than HD DVD. That is simply not true and you have no basis to make that claim.
Do you have a reading problem? I am basing the statement on personal experience? What better basis is there? The article is about my experience using both formats. Jesus.
Quote: Old hardware like the most recent generation of player the HD-A3? Okay.
Confused? You most certainly are. The most recent generation over here includes the EP30 and EP35, which are called the A30 and A35 in the US. Both offer everything you mentioned and more. But hey, why post facts when you can just ignore them if it suits your needs?
Chris Gould wrote: Tell me what the maximum bitrate of DTS-HD HR is.
Quote: 1.5mbps
Try again.
Chris Gould wrote: Now tell me what the maximum bitrate that can be sent over legacy optical/coax.
Quote: 1.5mbps
At least you got that right. It is a problem because it is mandatory for all HD DVD players to decode TrueHD internally, thus offering full bandwidth audio to everyone. Because DTS-HD support isn’t mandatory on BD most players can’t do it, which means no full bandwidth audio from DTS-HD tracks. Most HD DVD titles use TrueHD, whereas most BD titles use DTS-HD. See where I’m going with this? Granted a lot of BD titles use PCM, but equally many do not.
Quote: Heck, the XBOX add-on can't output any HD audio at all, even if you have the HDMI elite model. If you want to talk about audio restrictions, compare apples to apples and include the add-on which is many times inferior to the PS3.
You said it yourself, it’s an add-on. The PS3 was built with BD in mind, the 360 wasn’t. It’s a games console first and an HD DVD player second. The only reason the PS3 is so good at the price is because Sony sell it at a loss and recoups their losses on the games. Standalone manufacturers can’t do that. Anyway, you’re the one that keeps bringing up consoles, not me.
Quote: This makes it sound as though blu-ray movies will no longer work in 1.0 players. the fact is that all Blu-ray movies will work in all 1.0 profile players from now until the end of time. the only difference is that p.i.p. and internet downloading won't work. since most people are only interested in the movies anyway, I doubt this is as big a problem as some are making it out to be.
No it doesn’t, it makes it sound as though people will have to buy a new player to enjoy all of the features on 1.1/2.0 discs, which is true. It’s funny how the BD fanboys (of which you are clearly one) always go on about how PiP and interactive features are not important when their machines can’t handle them. Wait until 1.1 is the norm, I bet they’ll be using them as another means to attack HD DVD.
Quote: And of course you fail to mention that it is unlikely that 51GB discs will work in any HD DVD player currently on the market which seems like a far bigger deal to me.
I’ll ignore the fact that Toshiba are saying they most likely will be compatible... Taken from my article: ‘More space may come in the future with triple-layer discs, but whether these will be compatible with existing hardware remains to be seen…’ So, you were saying something about failing to do what?
Come back when you know what you're talking about and can make a persuasive case citing credible sources, instead of just reeling off some things you think you know. DTS-HD HR max bitrate 1.5Mbps? DTS has other ideas.
What is everyone's opinion of movies and extra content being downloaded rather than on a disk with packaging? I come from the old school and I personally like having a disk and packaging, especially when it is a set that has extras such as booklets, etc. The whole fun of movie watching is the collecting and showcasing of them. Having them being just a file on a hard drive, for me, takes the fun out of it.
I'm a PS3 owner, therefore happily adjusting to Blu-Ray but really only for the technological convenience of it. The region code thing doesn't conform to all discs but it is still a pain in the ass & a further insult to consumers. I'm f**king disgusted at the studios for all this, especially now that I cant get Transformers on HD without buying a different f**king system altogether.
We should boycott the b*****d lot & stick to plain good old (not that f**king old) DVD.
We should boycott the b*****d lot & stick to plain good old (not that f**king old) DVD.
Chaos Engine wrote: I'm a PS3 owner, therefore happily adjusting to Blu-Ray but really only for the technological convenience of it. The region code thing doesn't conform to all discs but it is still a pain in the ass & a further insult to consumers. I'm f**king disgusted at the studios for all this, especially now that I cant get Transformers on HD without buying a different f**king system altogether.
We should boycott the b*****d lot & stick to plain good old (not that f**king old) DVD.
Sorry...but once you've gone HD... you can't go back. It'd be like abandoning TV and going back to Radio.
We should boycott the b*****d lot & stick to plain good old (not that f**king old) DVD.
Sorry...but once you've gone HD... you can't go back. It'd be like abandoning TV and going back to Radio.
My $0.02...
I went HD-DVD for a few simple reasons (really one main one):
Price - I picked up an HD-A3 for $199 with 10 free movies (2 in the box, any 3 at the store, 5 free by mail). That deal basically made the player pay for itself.
So far I have been very impressed with the quality, though it does have some issues. Nothing too great, and like I said, the price was ridiculous. If Blu-Ray offered something like this, I would be on board for that as well. That's the main issue I have with BR - price! The cheapest player is still over $300, which is too much for me right now.
In the end this format war really just hurts everybody
I went HD-DVD for a few simple reasons (really one main one):
Price - I picked up an HD-A3 for $199 with 10 free movies (2 in the box, any 3 at the store, 5 free by mail). That deal basically made the player pay for itself.
So far I have been very impressed with the quality, though it does have some issues. Nothing too great, and like I said, the price was ridiculous. If Blu-Ray offered something like this, I would be on board for that as well. That's the main issue I have with BR - price! The cheapest player is still over $300, which is too much for me right now.
In the end this format war really just hurts everybody
You guys got a better deal than us. We got seven free films; two in the box five via mail-in redemption. You had a better selection as well. Still, I got some decent stuff. 300 is cool, also got Dreamgirls, Serenity, Hulk, The Prestige and Troy for the Mrs. Bourne Supremacy was also in the box, but it has lip-sync issues.
Tellingly, I got nothing with the BD player (which was also £60 more expensive).
Tellingly, I got nothing with the BD player (which was also £60 more expensive).
As said above, great article. Thanks and well done on it as now I am much more aware of the hindrances of either format and have some reasons (besides finances) to hold off for a decision on which to go for. It is astonishing that the discs can take so long to load.
I know you don't like us saying this, but in the interest of balance, I got Casino Royal on blu-ray free with my PS3 and nothing free with my Toshiba HD-DVD player.
Good review. As for the loading times on Blu-ray players, mine are the same as for DVD when playing Blu-ry discs on my VAIO VGN-FZ11Z or my PS3, and I can play Blu-ray Java content on both quite happily too. To be honest, I'm not totally committed to Blu-ray. I went with them as they had the larger studio support, but I would dearly love to see the likes of The Bourne Ultimatum and Transformers in HD, so perhaps one day I'll pick up an HD player too.
toonloon wrote: I know you don't like us saying this, but in the interest of balance, I got Casino Royal on blu-ray free with my PS3 and nothing free with my Toshiba HD-DVD player.
What are you talking about? Why would we have a problem with you posting that? Obviously there are different offers going on all the time, but at the moment HD DVD is giving the consumer way more. In the US it's a bit different because some players are being given away with multiple BD titles, or at the very least the Spider-Man trilogy.
What are you talking about? Why would we have a problem with you posting that? Obviously there are different offers going on all the time, but at the moment HD DVD is giving the consumer way more. In the US it's a bit different because some players are being given away with multiple BD titles, or at the very least the Spider-Man trilogy.
Oh come on Chris! You keep ragging on anyone who mentions they use a PS3 to view blu-ray AND you said that YOU didn't get any free blu-rays in your post. THAT'S what I'm talking about. Don't condemn me for mentioning there "different offer going on all the time" when you printed the opposite message in your post to put down blu-ray. I was just telling you THAT I DID get a free blu-ray with my player JUST to give everyone else reading this forum my experience of both formats which seems to fly against your own 'impartial' assessment which you defend so vociferously and, I'm disappointed to say, in such a knee jerk and defensive manner.
Old hardware like the most recent generation of player the HD-A3? Okay.
Quote: Confused? You most certainly are. The most recent generation over here includes the EP30 and EP35, which are called the A30 and A35 in the US. Both offer everything you mentioned and more. But hey, why post facts when you can just ignore them if it suits your needs?
Well over here the A30 came out BEFORE the HD-A3 did. Either way, they are BOTH 3rd generation machines, so it's not "old hardware" by any stretch of the imagination.
Chris Gould wrote: Tell me what the maximum bitrate of DTS-HD HR is.
6.0 Mbps on Blu-ray discs and 3.0 Mbps on HD-DVD to produce outstanding sound quality."
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hdd...
And you were telling me HD DVD is superior or even equal to Blu-ray? Now I understand why you didn't want to quote the bitrate.
Quote: Most HD DVD titles use TrueHD
Nope, only about 30% have any HD audio at all. Blu-ray on the other hand has HD audio on about 80% of titles.
Quote: whereas most BD titles use DTS-HD. See where I’m going with this? Granted a lot of BD titles use PCM, but equally many do not.
Most BD titles actually use PCM, but as always, don't let facts get in the way.
And since you live in the UK, you already know that Blu-ray software outsells HD DVD software 4:1 there. Do you also realize Blu-ray software outsells HD DVD software 3:1 in the U.S. and 10:1 in Asia? Yeah, HD DVD is a real safe bet.
Ok, those HD audio stats were taken from a poster who did research on it, but now I've found a site that does it transparently.
http://www.blu-raystats.com/
Blu-ray has 61.89% lossless audio
DTS HD 4.85%
DTS HD MA 13.39%
Yeah, overwhelming majority there.
Let's check out PCM shall we?
PCM 42.73%
So yeah, overwhelmingly Blu-ray uses PCM audio which does not need decoding, although it does require either HDMI or multi analog. And yes, several Blu-ray players have multianalog out.
Let's check out HD DVD HD audio:
http://www.hddvdstats.com/
21.07% lossless
Hardly "most".
TrueHD 20.27%
DTS HD MA .27%
Ouch!
So you can see, like just about every other measurable thing, Blu-ray WHOMPS HD DVD.
Now you were saying how HD DVD is superior or even equal to Blu-ray?
Quote: Confused? You most certainly are. The most recent generation over here includes the EP30 and EP35, which are called the A30 and A35 in the US. Both offer everything you mentioned and more. But hey, why post facts when you can just ignore them if it suits your needs?
Well over here the A30 came out BEFORE the HD-A3 did. Either way, they are BOTH 3rd generation machines, so it's not "old hardware" by any stretch of the imagination.
Chris Gould wrote: Tell me what the maximum bitrate of DTS-HD HR is.
6.0 Mbps on Blu-ray discs and 3.0 Mbps on HD-DVD to produce outstanding sound quality."
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hdd...
And you were telling me HD DVD is superior or even equal to Blu-ray? Now I understand why you didn't want to quote the bitrate.
Quote: Most HD DVD titles use TrueHD
Nope, only about 30% have any HD audio at all. Blu-ray on the other hand has HD audio on about 80% of titles.
Quote: whereas most BD titles use DTS-HD. See where I’m going with this? Granted a lot of BD titles use PCM, but equally many do not.
Most BD titles actually use PCM, but as always, don't let facts get in the way.
And since you live in the UK, you already know that Blu-ray software outsells HD DVD software 4:1 there. Do you also realize Blu-ray software outsells HD DVD software 3:1 in the U.S. and 10:1 in Asia? Yeah, HD DVD is a real safe bet.
Ok, those HD audio stats were taken from a poster who did research on it, but now I've found a site that does it transparently.
http://www.blu-raystats.com/
Blu-ray has 61.89% lossless audio
DTS HD 4.85%
DTS HD MA 13.39%
Yeah, overwhelming majority there.
Let's check out PCM shall we?
PCM 42.73%
So yeah, overwhelmingly Blu-ray uses PCM audio which does not need decoding, although it does require either HDMI or multi analog. And yes, several Blu-ray players have multianalog out.
Let's check out HD DVD HD audio:
http://www.hddvdstats.com/
21.07% lossless
Hardly "most".
TrueHD 20.27%
DTS HD MA .27%
Ouch!
So you can see, like just about every other measurable thing, Blu-ray WHOMPS HD DVD.
Now you were saying how HD DVD is superior or even equal to Blu-ray?
Get off it man. So you're pro-Blu Ray... whoopty s**t. But until you've spent as much time with HD DVD AND Blu-Ray, quit downing the format based on specs and things you've "heard" rather than experienced. Flush some of that Blu Kool-Aid out of your system and relax a bit.
Fettastic: As far as regional coding, it is optional for content creators. Sony, for example, often does not inlcude regional encoding. I have the UK version of Hellboy for example and it plays fine on my American BD player.
Chris Gould: A lot of Sony UK's titles are multi-region, but most of the other distributors are coding. It's also the same story in the US.
Blu-ray:
Region Free 237 67.71 %
Not Region Free 113 32.29 %
http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php
movieguy85 wrote: Get off it man. So you're pro-Blu Ray... whoopty s**t. But until you've spent as much time with HD DVD AND Blu-Ray, quit downing the format based on specs and things you've "heard" rather than experienced. Flush some of that Blu Kool-Aid out of your system and relax a bit.
Are you talking to me? I have a PS3 and an HD-A1. i have about 150 titles for each format.
....You were saying?
Chris Gould: A lot of Sony UK's titles are multi-region, but most of the other distributors are coding. It's also the same story in the US.
Blu-ray:
Region Free 237 67.71 %
Not Region Free 113 32.29 %
http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php
movieguy85 wrote: Get off it man. So you're pro-Blu Ray... whoopty s**t. But until you've spent as much time with HD DVD AND Blu-Ray, quit downing the format based on specs and things you've "heard" rather than experienced. Flush some of that Blu Kool-Aid out of your system and relax a bit.
Are you talking to me? I have a PS3 and an HD-A1. i have about 150 titles for each format.
....You were saying?
toonloon wrote: Oh come on Chris! You keep ragging on anyone who mentions they use a PS3 to view blu-ray AND you said that YOU didn't get any free blu-rays in your post. THAT'S what I'm talking about. Don't condemn me for mentioning there "different offer going on all the time" when you printed the opposite message in your post to put down blu-ray. I was just telling you THAT I DID get a free blu-ray with my player JUST to give everyone else reading this forum my experience of both formats which seems to fly against your own 'impartial' assessment which you defend so vociferously and, I'm disappointed to say, in such a knee jerk and defensive manner.
That's really how you read it? Are you this paranoid in everyday life? Where did I 'rag' on anyone? Seriously, point it out. If you'd like experience 'ragging' I can give a demonstration.
Oh Fettastic, you have given me a good laugh. Not only have you spectacularly failed to understand any of the points I made, you've resorted to quoting bits of my posts out of context and then 'backing them up' with 'statistics'. You're nothing more than a Blu-ray fanboy that can't handle someone criticising the format's weaknesses.
I could make another long post to address your reply, but there's really no point because you just don't want to listen. I will address one point, because it annoys me when people quote out of context. I wrote the following when discussing which lossless codecs each format uses:
Chris Gould wrote: Most HD DVD titles use TrueHD, whereas most BD titles use DTS-HD.
Anyone with half a brain can see that I was comparing the use of the codecs on the respective formats, not their overall use. I'll try and write it in an uncomplicated manner, just for you.
TrueHD is mostly used on HD DVD; there are comparatively few discs with DTS-HD tracks. DTS-HD is mostly used on BD titles; there are fewer with TrueHD tracks. I never said for a second that they are the most popular kind of tracks on either format, because clearly they're not (Dolby Digital Plus is probably the most widely used on the discs I have).
This article offers my opinion of both formats' pros and cons after an equal period of use. At this moment in time I happen to think that HD DVD is the more complete format. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I haven't slagged BD off; every point I raised is valid, as is every negative point I raised about HD DVD (but true to BD fanboy form you ignored those). I really don't see why you're taking it so personally though. You'd think BD was your wife and I'd just raped her.
I never understand why people spend so much time arguing about which format is 'better', even wishing failure on the other. Having two formats isn't ideal, but it is driving both hardware and software prices down.
Thank you to all of the level-headed people who saw this article for what it was though. Glad some of it was useful.
That's really how you read it? Are you this paranoid in everyday life? Where did I 'rag' on anyone? Seriously, point it out. If you'd like experience 'ragging' I can give a demonstration.
Oh Fettastic, you have given me a good laugh. Not only have you spectacularly failed to understand any of the points I made, you've resorted to quoting bits of my posts out of context and then 'backing them up' with 'statistics'. You're nothing more than a Blu-ray fanboy that can't handle someone criticising the format's weaknesses.
I could make another long post to address your reply, but there's really no point because you just don't want to listen. I will address one point, because it annoys me when people quote out of context. I wrote the following when discussing which lossless codecs each format uses:
Chris Gould wrote: Most HD DVD titles use TrueHD, whereas most BD titles use DTS-HD.
Anyone with half a brain can see that I was comparing the use of the codecs on the respective formats, not their overall use. I'll try and write it in an uncomplicated manner, just for you.
TrueHD is mostly used on HD DVD; there are comparatively few discs with DTS-HD tracks. DTS-HD is mostly used on BD titles; there are fewer with TrueHD tracks. I never said for a second that they are the most popular kind of tracks on either format, because clearly they're not (Dolby Digital Plus is probably the most widely used on the discs I have).
This article offers my opinion of both formats' pros and cons after an equal period of use. At this moment in time I happen to think that HD DVD is the more complete format. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I haven't slagged BD off; every point I raised is valid, as is every negative point I raised about HD DVD (but true to BD fanboy form you ignored those). I really don't see why you're taking it so personally though. You'd think BD was your wife and I'd just raped her.
I never understand why people spend so much time arguing about which format is 'better', even wishing failure on the other. Having two formats isn't ideal, but it is driving both hardware and software prices down.
Thank you to all of the level-headed people who saw this article for what it was though. Glad some of it was useful.
It was very useful Chris thanks. Me thinks a long long way to go before theres ONE format and ONE machine that plays ALL the special features of a disc. The new Blade Runner HD disc is nudging me in the HD region but i must resist, it's early days yet and besides i can see a single 200GB disc with seamless branching of all the different versions in a year or two. Can't afford that Kuro Pioneer 42inch just yet anyway, boy what a T.V.
I wonder with all the free disc they are giving away if that is some kind of indication that players aren't selling so well. If that is the case, I am not surprised. I have actually been dissapointed in that there seems to be more features, which I am a hound for, on dvd than either hd format. For that alone I stick with dvd. I am also not that big a fan of the blue or red top, though that is really minor. I can understand the difference in picture quality without a doubt, just not something that I find worth spending all the extra cash on to get a new tv, player and discs. Absolutely fantastic article though chris, I admire your guts to go ahead with it knowing the reactions you would get. I say, keep it up.
I own 23 Blu, 19 HD and 700+ DVDs.
I own both the PS3 and 360 HD player, my PS3 has significantly faster loading times compared to the HD player. The only Blu movie that has taken considerable time to load (worthy of a mention) is Spider-Man 3. It takes about 15 second to load, and you get this little spider hourglass that fills up letting you know how much time is left.
I own blu 300, and asked my friend to bring over his HD 300 (he is a super Xbox fanboy) and I have to give 300 on HD a nod in the picture category. On my 42inch Bravia, it looked amazing, thats not to say 300 Blu looked like c**p, the HD 300 had an extra sparkle.
Sound just seems clearer and more powerful on Blu in every instance, although Casino and King Kong sound amazing.
Anyone who says Indiana Jones is HD exclusive is either a fanboy or dumb. Speilburg movies are not included in any studio exclusive deal. I'm pretty sure Old Steve said he prefers Blu (can not provide article), as did Uncle George, coming from someone with Star Wars Tattoos, I can't wait to see Star Wars on any HD format, but would prefer Blu.
Taken as a whole, IMO I believe the best overall High def experience is either Pirates 3 or Spider-Man 3. The picture is truly incredible. Even if they are the weakest movies in their respective trilogies, they are incredible displays of picture and sound.
I own both the PS3 and 360 HD player, my PS3 has significantly faster loading times compared to the HD player. The only Blu movie that has taken considerable time to load (worthy of a mention) is Spider-Man 3. It takes about 15 second to load, and you get this little spider hourglass that fills up letting you know how much time is left.
I own blu 300, and asked my friend to bring over his HD 300 (he is a super Xbox fanboy) and I have to give 300 on HD a nod in the picture category. On my 42inch Bravia, it looked amazing, thats not to say 300 Blu looked like c**p, the HD 300 had an extra sparkle.
Sound just seems clearer and more powerful on Blu in every instance, although Casino and King Kong sound amazing.
Anyone who says Indiana Jones is HD exclusive is either a fanboy or dumb. Speilburg movies are not included in any studio exclusive deal. I'm pretty sure Old Steve said he prefers Blu (can not provide article), as did Uncle George, coming from someone with Star Wars Tattoos, I can't wait to see Star Wars on any HD format, but would prefer Blu.
Taken as a whole, IMO I believe the best overall High def experience is either Pirates 3 or Spider-Man 3. The picture is truly incredible. Even if they are the weakest movies in their respective trilogies, they are incredible displays of picture and sound.
Chris - I'm surprised that a moderator here hasn't warned you for trolling. There's no need to use such inflammatory language. I was just trying to put across my experiences of owning both formats. I'm surprised you haven't been cautioned for your manner but then I realise that YOU are the man in charge here.
Now I get it.
Don't worry. You won't hear another peep out of me.
Now I get it.
Don't worry. You won't hear another peep out of me.
Thank f**k for that. Inflammatory? Talk about over-sensitive. I never tried to prevent anyone from having an opinion (if you actually read the thread you'll see that), I simply gave mine in return to one of your posts. It wasn't nasty, I wasn't telling you that you can't have an opinion, I just don't agree with you. It was you who rode in on 'Fettastic's' coat tails to have a pop at me with that 'shot me down' comment. You must have very low self-esteem if something like that upsets you. It's not my fault you didn't realise that I was the one who wrote the article either. Banging on about me 'ragging' PS3 owners and calling me biased - did you even read the original piece?
The Ranger wrote: I wonder with all the free disc they are giving away if that is some kind of indication that players aren't selling so well. If that is the case, I am not surprised. I have actually been dissapointed in that there seems to be more features, which I am a hound for, on dvd than either hd format. For that alone I stick with dvd. I am also not that big a fan of the blue or red top, though that is really minor. I can understand the difference in picture quality without a doubt, just not something that I find worth spending all the extra cash on to get a new tv, player and discs. Absolutely fantastic article though chris, I admire your guts to go ahead with it knowing the reactions you would get. I say, keep it up.
Cheers. To be honest it's only been two people who have taken it personally, which is a lot less than I expected. I was expecting to get some grief for the HD DVD criticisms as well, especially because I said that I think BD will eventually win out.
I think the free disc thing is interesting. Toshiba giving away so many titles could be seen as a last-ditch attempt to push HD DVD hardware, but it makes sense. Flog a load of players this Christmas by cutting costs and bundling titles and you have a larger installed user base in the new year.
With BD I don't know if it's a case of thinking they've already won, or if it's because the manufacturers are more diverse. Toshiba are basically the only HD DVD players you see in the UK and obviously they have a stake in the format, but over here the only BD players that seem to offer bundled titles come from Sony. Sharp and Samsung don't offer anything for some reason (I didn't even get an HDMI cable with the Samsung).
Still, I reckon if I was buying in the next year, maybe with 4th generation hardware, I might have given BD the nudge. Most of the problems outlined above will be addressed with 1.1, and that was the major factor that influenced my HD DVD comments. Well that and regional coding, which I don't know if I can ever live with.
The Ranger wrote: I wonder with all the free disc they are giving away if that is some kind of indication that players aren't selling so well. If that is the case, I am not surprised. I have actually been dissapointed in that there seems to be more features, which I am a hound for, on dvd than either hd format. For that alone I stick with dvd. I am also not that big a fan of the blue or red top, though that is really minor. I can understand the difference in picture quality without a doubt, just not something that I find worth spending all the extra cash on to get a new tv, player and discs. Absolutely fantastic article though chris, I admire your guts to go ahead with it knowing the reactions you would get. I say, keep it up.
Cheers. To be honest it's only been two people who have taken it personally, which is a lot less than I expected. I was expecting to get some grief for the HD DVD criticisms as well, especially because I said that I think BD will eventually win out.
I think the free disc thing is interesting. Toshiba giving away so many titles could be seen as a last-ditch attempt to push HD DVD hardware, but it makes sense. Flog a load of players this Christmas by cutting costs and bundling titles and you have a larger installed user base in the new year.
With BD I don't know if it's a case of thinking they've already won, or if it's because the manufacturers are more diverse. Toshiba are basically the only HD DVD players you see in the UK and obviously they have a stake in the format, but over here the only BD players that seem to offer bundled titles come from Sony. Sharp and Samsung don't offer anything for some reason (I didn't even get an HDMI cable with the Samsung).
Still, I reckon if I was buying in the next year, maybe with 4th generation hardware, I might have given BD the nudge. Most of the problems outlined above will be addressed with 1.1, and that was the major factor that influenced my HD DVD comments. Well that and regional coding, which I don't know if I can ever live with.
I haven't taken anything personally. It just seems as though you are touting HD DVD over Blu-ray despite the fact that technologically it is far behind and losing in sales worldwide.
As an example, last night I went to my friends house to check out some Heroes extras. She had been complaining to me about her HD-A2 being problematic. I sort of assumed she wasn't being patient with the lengthy load times. I said, "See, just press open once. Yes it takes a long time but eventually it will open." It did. I put in the Heroes disc, it closed....then immediately opened again! She said "See? Sometimes it even does that in the middle of a movie!" not cool man. As a matter of fact, I took over the German release of Running Scared to watch with her and it refused to play the english track no matter what I tried. Again, a problem.
Things like that really turn people off.
But I learned that optical downmixes everything, something I didn't know before, so thank you. I'm not attacking you, just some things you have said. IHopefully everyone can come away from debate like things having learned something.
As an example, last night I went to my friends house to check out some Heroes extras. She had been complaining to me about her HD-A2 being problematic. I sort of assumed she wasn't being patient with the lengthy load times. I said, "See, just press open once. Yes it takes a long time but eventually it will open." It did. I put in the Heroes disc, it closed....then immediately opened again! She said "See? Sometimes it even does that in the middle of a movie!" not cool man. As a matter of fact, I took over the German release of Running Scared to watch with her and it refused to play the english track no matter what I tried. Again, a problem.
Things like that really turn people off.
But I learned that optical downmixes everything, something I didn't know before, so thank you. I'm not attacking you, just some things you have said. IHopefully everyone can come away from debate like things having learned something.
Fettastic wrote: Fettastic: As far as regional coding, it is optional for content creators. Sony, for example, often does not inlcude regional encoding. I have the UK version of Hellboy for example and it plays fine on my American BD player.
Chris Gould: A lot of Sony UK's titles are multi-region, but most of the other distributors are coding. It's also the same story in the US.
Blu-ray:
Region Free 237 67.71 %
Not Region Free 113 32.29 %
http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php
movieguy85 wrote: Get off it man. So you're pro-Blu Ray... whoopty s**t. But until you've spent as much time with HD DVD AND Blu-Ray, quit downing the format based on specs and things you've "heard" rather than experienced. Flush some of that Blu Kool-Aid out of your system and relax a bit.
Are you talking to me? I have a PS3 and an HD-A1. i have about 150 titles for each format.
....You were saying?
If that's truly the case then you must not hate HD DVD as much as you're leading on...
So... As I was saying... Calm down and get over it!
Chris Gould: A lot of Sony UK's titles are multi-region, but most of the other distributors are coding. It's also the same story in the US.
Blu-ray:
Region Free 237 67.71 %
Not Region Free 113 32.29 %
http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php
movieguy85 wrote: Get off it man. So you're pro-Blu Ray... whoopty s**t. But until you've spent as much time with HD DVD AND Blu-Ray, quit downing the format based on specs and things you've "heard" rather than experienced. Flush some of that Blu Kool-Aid out of your system and relax a bit.
Are you talking to me? I have a PS3 and an HD-A1. i have about 150 titles for each format.
....You were saying?
If that's truly the case then you must not hate HD DVD as much as you're leading on...
So... As I was saying... Calm down and get over it!
Even if Chris was touting HDDVD, so what? From the years reading this site and Chris's reviews, I personally would trust him to be fair to both formats despite any personal preferences he may or may not have.
I'm PS3 BD but if I had the money for an HD Player I'd probably get one as well. It seems that some people just can't cope with others owning one format without requiring them to kick the teeth in of the other that they don't own.
For me, I don't have an endless supply of money so it's my hope that BD is still around in a few years so that I haven't pissed away a few hundred quid.
I'm PS3 BD but if I had the money for an HD Player I'd probably get one as well. It seems that some people just can't cope with others owning one format without requiring them to kick the teeth in of the other that they don't own.
For me, I don't have an endless supply of money so it's my hope that BD is still around in a few years so that I haven't pissed away a few hundred quid.
Aye, at the end of the day it's about the films, not the formats. Both formats offer experiences that are all-but identical and it's just a pity that you have to own both to watch the films you love.
My argument has never been the technical superiority of HD DVD, but the poor implementation of BD's 'on-paper' specs. If both were complete, final standards, BD would undoubtedly be the format with more potential, but as things stand it's not living up to that potential. Just for the record, I currently have about twice as many BDs as HD DVDs. It has nothing to do with format preference, it's because some of the films I enjoy are only available on BD. When it comes to dual-format titles, I obviously buy the superior version (300 HD DVD for example).
My argument has never been the technical superiority of HD DVD, but the poor implementation of BD's 'on-paper' specs. If both were complete, final standards, BD would undoubtedly be the format with more potential, but as things stand it's not living up to that potential. Just for the record, I currently have about twice as many BDs as HD DVDs. It has nothing to do with format preference, it's because some of the films I enjoy are only available on BD. When it comes to dual-format titles, I obviously buy the superior version (300 HD DVD for example).
It's a shame for guys like me who have yet to buy a player. It seems like no matter which you choose, there will be an issue. And buy both, a decent option, might cost more $$$ in the end if one format dies out.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
macnorton wrote: It's a shame for guys like me who have yet to buy a player. It seems like no matter which you choose, there will be an issue. And buy both, a decent option, might cost more $$$ in the end if one format dies out.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
Why buy a combo player when you can get a $399 PS3 and a $199 HD DVD player? You'll come out cheaper than spending $800+ for the dual player.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
Why buy a combo player when you can get a $399 PS3 and a $199 HD DVD player? You'll come out cheaper than spending $800+ for the dual player.
movieguy85 wrote: macnorton wrote: It's a shame for guys like me who have yet to buy a player. It seems like no matter which you choose, there will be an issue. And buy both, a decent option, might cost more $$$ in the end if one format dies out.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
Why buy a combo player when you can get a $399 PS3 and a $199 HD DVD player? You'll come out cheaper than spending $800+ for the dual player.
Is that what the price point is...yeeesh! Although that is an interesting alternative that was suggested, I have no interest in a PS3 (or for that matter an Xbox 360). I don't have time for games anymore, and I feel if I am buying either system I want to be able to use everything it has to offer. If I am not going to play any games, then what is the point? Again that is my opinion. Looks like it is DVD's for me for a while.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
Why buy a combo player when you can get a $399 PS3 and a $199 HD DVD player? You'll come out cheaper than spending $800+ for the dual player.
Is that what the price point is...yeeesh! Although that is an interesting alternative that was suggested, I have no interest in a PS3 (or for that matter an Xbox 360). I don't have time for games anymore, and I feel if I am buying either system I want to be able to use everything it has to offer. If I am not going to play any games, then what is the point? Again that is my opinion. Looks like it is DVD's for me for a while.
Quote: If that's truly the case then you must not hate HD DVD as much as you're leading on...
So... As I was saying... Calm down and get over it!
I've been leading on that I hate HD DVD? How did I do that? I've said that Blu-ray has many advantages to HD DVD and HD DVD certainly is not superior to Blu-ray, but how does that equate to hating it?
And what exactly do I need to get over? That people who write articles in a position of authority get some things wrong? How is that mine to get over? Or maybe you're suggesting I just put on a blissful smile and stop participating in forums? If that's your motto, then I guess you should follow it and "get over" me.
macnorton wrote: movieguy85 wrote: macnorton wrote: It's a shame for guys like me who have yet to buy a player. It seems like no matter which you choose, there will be an issue. And buy both, a decent option, might cost more $$$ in the end if one format dies out.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
Why buy a combo player when you can get a $399 PS3 and a $199 HD DVD player? You'll come out cheaper than spending $800+ for the dual player.
Is that what the price point is...yeeesh! Although that is an interesting alternative that was suggested, I have no interest in a PS3 (or for that matter an Xbox 360). I don't have time for games anymore, and I feel if I am buying either system I want to be able to use everything it has to offer. If I am not going to play any games, then what is the point? Again that is my opinion. Looks like it is DVD's for me for a while.
Actually the Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-ray player is around $270.00 now.
Also Saw Iv has been announced as yet another web-enabled Blu-ray title. The Jason Statom Jet Li title War will also have a game built in people can play each other online, something never even suggested possible with HD DVD.
Chris I also have the HD DVD of 300. Although it includes the only interactive game ever on an HD DVD (Blu-ray has many of them), I found it pretty underwhelming. Also being a combo, it glitched at the layer change as Josh Zyber also experienced and notes in his article at www.highdefdigest.com.
The picture in picture is really cool, but the glitching is irritating.
So... As I was saying... Calm down and get over it!
I've been leading on that I hate HD DVD? How did I do that? I've said that Blu-ray has many advantages to HD DVD and HD DVD certainly is not superior to Blu-ray, but how does that equate to hating it?
And what exactly do I need to get over? That people who write articles in a position of authority get some things wrong? How is that mine to get over? Or maybe you're suggesting I just put on a blissful smile and stop participating in forums? If that's your motto, then I guess you should follow it and "get over" me.
macnorton wrote: movieguy85 wrote: macnorton wrote: It's a shame for guys like me who have yet to buy a player. It seems like no matter which you choose, there will be an issue. And buy both, a decent option, might cost more $$$ in the end if one format dies out.
I am curious to know, has anyone reviewed (or bought) a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo player? It seems like that might solve the dilemma of choosing.
Why buy a combo player when you can get a $399 PS3 and a $199 HD DVD player? You'll come out cheaper than spending $800+ for the dual player.
Is that what the price point is...yeeesh! Although that is an interesting alternative that was suggested, I have no interest in a PS3 (or for that matter an Xbox 360). I don't have time for games anymore, and I feel if I am buying either system I want to be able to use everything it has to offer. If I am not going to play any games, then what is the point? Again that is my opinion. Looks like it is DVD's for me for a while.
Actually the Samsung BD-P1400 Blu-ray player is around $270.00 now.
Also Saw Iv has been announced as yet another web-enabled Blu-ray title. The Jason Statom Jet Li title War will also have a game built in people can play each other online, something never even suggested possible with HD DVD.
Chris I also have the HD DVD of 300. Although it includes the only interactive game ever on an HD DVD (Blu-ray has many of them), I found it pretty underwhelming. Also being a combo, it glitched at the layer change as Josh Zyber also experienced and notes in his article at www.highdefdigest.com.
The picture in picture is really cool, but the glitching is irritating.
Well spank my bottom and call me Esther. A web enabled BD? You know these games are going to be about as useful/pointless as a pair of open toed wellies when they eventually arrive. See, I'll even have a pop at the HD format that I've invested in. It's quite a sensation.
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What I actually said was that I don't know of one, ot that none exist. As far as I am aware you still only get Core from DTS-HD HR on the vast majority of players. If that's wrong, please point me to the relevant information and I'm amend the article.[/quote]
"Amazing 24p True Cinema output and cinema-tuned picture presets allow you to see movies exactly as the director intended. Featuring LPCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD audio decoding for ultra-realistic sound, this player is also a treat for the ears."
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-S500-1080p-Blu-R...
Quote: You said in your article that HD DVD is quicker than Blu-ray. That is not true and in fact it's quite teh opposite. The fact that a couple java intensive discs, which has nothing to do with the mechanical operations the players themselves, is a totally different situation than the millenium long wait all HD DVD owners have to go through just to get the thing to turn on and open the disc tray.
I'm basing my opinions on the hardware that is available now, not what has come before or some intangible players that might come in the future. Based on my experiences with two standalone decks HD DVD is marginally more responsive in most (but not all) areas. You're quite right that BD's slow loading of BD-J titles has nothing to do with the mechanics of the players. I don't remember saying it did.[/quote]
You said Blu-ray was slower than HD DVD. That is simply not true and you have no basis to make that claim.
Quote: Neither do the HD-A2 or the HD-A3, the most popular models of HD DVD player! Heck they don't even offer 1080p/24 playback which is what the discs are encoded in! The reason that's a big deal is because displays are forced to deinterlace the image and some of them don't do a very good job, leading to artifacts.
Again, you're talking about old hardware. Even your beloved PS3 needed a firmware upgrade to enable 24Hz support and up-conversion.[/quote]
Old hardware like the most recent generation of player the HD-A3? Okay.
Quote: You can hear DD+ and DTS HD over the included optical connection on the PS3 though, another place you are wrong. If you're talking about DTS HD MA, then you have to make that distinction.
Quote: Tell me what the maximum bitrate of DTS-HD HR is.
1.5mbps
Quote: Now tell me what the maximum bitrate that can be sent over legacy optical/coax.
1.5mbps
Quote: Can't do it? Go to DTS, read up on it. You can get Core (i.e. reduced bitrate audio) over those legacy connections. They don't have the bandwidth to do anything like the bitrates supported by DTS-HD HR or MA. The same goes for DD+. What you're talking about is downmixing, which is completely different. I think it's you who needs to work on your distinctions.
I looked into it a bit more and from what I can tell, for whatever reason despite SPDIF being capable of the DTS HD HR feed, it does resolve with some downsampling. But it should be noted that the same occurs on ALL SPDIF, not just Blu-ray. so those without a receiver having sperate analog inputs are SOL no matter what, and since several HD DVD players including the XBOX add-on ALSO do not have multi analog out, I fail to see how this is a Blu-ray only problem. Heck, the XBOX add-on can't output any HD audio at all, even if you have the HDMI elite model. If you want to talk about audio restrictions, compare apples to apples and include the add-on which is many times inferior to the PS3.
Quote: Also the idea that the lack of a secondary video processor being the reason POTC is slow to boot up on some players is ridiculous. POTC doesn't have a secondary video!
Wait for profile 1.1 and see how much faster these discs are. It's to do with persistent storage and all of the stuff that will come with 1.1. I'll admit that mentioning the secondary video/audio stuff wasn't clever; I should have made it clear I was talking about the full benefits of 1.1, which includes that and more. The video and audio processing does make a difference for features that are overlayed on the main feature though, such as the games on the FF: RotSS disc.
Quote: No conspiracy, no spec problem with blu-ray, just like you couldn't watch King Kong on any HD DVD player without upgrading to 2.0 firmware.
Quote: Your point? My BD player didn't work with four or five titles until the second firmware upgrade. You didn't have to buy a new player with HD DVD either, did you? People with 1.0 machines will, then they'll have to get another one when 2.0 is rolled out. Yeah, the specs were really standardised/finalised from the start...
This makes it sound as though blu-ray movies will no longer work in 1.0 players. the fact is that all Blu-ray movies will work in all 1.0 profile players from now until the end of time. the only difference is that p.i.p. and internet downloading won't work. since most people are only interested in the movies anyway, I doubt this is as big a problem as some are making it out to be.
And of course you fail to mention that it is unlikely that 51GB discs will work in any HD DVD player currently on the market which seems like a far bigger deal to me.