Old Films on Blu-ray: Are They Worth It?
Chris attempts to dispel the myth that old films aren't worth the BD treatment
One of the common misconceptions with Blu-ray is that it only offers a significant advantage over DVD if the film was shot within the last five to ten years. In fact, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read statements from people claiming that it’s not worth owning ‘X’ film on Blu-ray because it wasn’t shot in high-definition. With all the jargon surrounding the format it’s hardly surprising that many people are fundamentally confused, but this short article aims to dispel the myth that only new films are worthy of the Blu-ray treatment.
While true that newer titles are often more visually impressive than catalogue releases, this is largely due to the way in which modern features are filmed and transferred to digital media. Many recent blockbusters—such as James Cameron’s record-breaking Avatar—were shot in digital high-definition. Because no film is involved the resulting images are usually exceptionally clean and the Blu-ray editions are largely flawless. However, the majority of motion pictures were and are shot on 35mm film, which actually has a much greater resolution than Blu-ray and the kind of digital cameras used to film Avatar.
What this means is that with the right amount of care and attention older films are quite capable of looking spectacular on Blu-ray because they already contain more resolution than the format can handle. Of course not all distributors are willing to spend the required time and money to ensure that older titles look their best, but more often than not even the most pedestrian of catalogue titles will offer an improvement over the DVD edition. Let’s take a look at some examples (click the images for larger versions):
First, let’s examine an unassuming film from the early nineties that has received only ‘no-frills’ releases to date. 1993’s Rising Sun (starring Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes) isn’t a particularly glossy movie, and with its grainy image and fairly muted colour palette the DVD release looks a little shoddy by today’s standards.

Now let’s examine the same frame from the Blu-ray release, which is a lowly catalogue title encoded in MPEG-2 and presented on a single-layered BD25. At first the differences appear to be somewhat superficial, but if you take a closer look you’ll see that the grain resolution is far superior and the colours are more natural. You might also notice how the framing has been slightly altered. You might think that it's an odd choice for this article, but I wanted to demonstrate how even less than ideal sources can benefit from the high-definition treatment with even minimal restorative work. It's also worth bearing in mind that the Blu-ray version will look significantly better on larger screens, where even tiny flaws are more noticeable.

Okay, so we’ve looked at one example of how Blu-ray can offer subtle improvements on even the least glamorous of titles, but what about an old classic? For this example let’s go all the way back to 1972 with Francis Ford Coppola’s The Godfather. The original DVD was one of my treasured possessions when it was originally released, but it’s really starting to show its age now.

For the Blu-ray release the film underwent a complete restoration supervised by Coppola himself. The image was cleaned, the colour timing was corrected, and the whole thing was scanned at high-resolution before being transferred to Blu-ray with a high bitrate AVC encode. As you can see, virtually every facet of the image demonstrates a marked improvement over the DVD version. The most obvious enhancement is the level of detail, which reveals hitherto unforeseen texture in clothing and scenery. You can also see that the characters' faces are no longer blurry messes, colour is more natural, and the brightness and contrast have been brought in line with Coppola's original intentions. It still doesn't look like a glossy feature from 2010, but it's not meant to. The purpose of Blu-ray is to offer an audio-visual presentation as close to the filmmakers' intentions as possible, and this is a great example of a director taking the opportunity to create the definitive version of their work.

Now let’s examine a slightly more recent film, Ridley Scott’s 1982 sci-fi classic Blade Runner. This film has received more DVD releases than most, but this screen capture is taken from the director’s cut version released in 2005. It’s a clear step up from the original DVD (which was horrible), and although it has some problems with dirt if you’d never seen another version you could be forgiven for thinking that it’s about as good as the film could ever look. However, with the right amount of time and effort it’s possible to coax even more out of the film, especially on Blu-ray.

This image is taken from the fully restored ‘Final Cut’ of the film on Blu-ray. The improvements should be immediately obvious to anyone. Whereas the bulbs on the giant video wall blurred into one another on the DVD they are now individually identifiable, as are the windows. The text on the various billboards is much sharper, colours are vastly improved, and the image is free from dirt. Blade Runner is yet another example of the huge benefits of involving the filmmakers when creating a new HD release.

Okay, so far we've compared the Blu-ray versions of films to their ageing DVD counterparts, but what if we were to compare a Blu-ray transfer to a DVD transfer that has also been remasterd? Would the differences be as dramatic? For this next comparison let’s go all the way back to 1939 and the classic The Wizard of Oz, which recently underwent a costly and time-consuming restoration. Here's a shot from that DVD.

Looks pretty great, right? Well yes, it does, but what about the Blu-ray? Can it improve on the fully-restored DVD release? You bet it can! The Wizard of Oz is one of the best examples of how to properly restore an older film to its former glory. Just look at all of the detail contained in the image; you can clearly make out the chequered pattern on Dorothy’s dress and the intricate textures of the Good Witch of the North’s costume. Blurry faces and background information become clear and the colours are improved, all without destroying the film grain.

So far we’ve compared the Blu-ray editions of films to both older untouched DVDs and fully restored DVDs. I’d like to think that Blu-ray’s visual advantages are obvious, but there are those who are not always happy with the way films look in high-definition. For our final example we’re going to look at to 1987’s Predator, starring everyone’s favourite ‘Governator’. The DVD release wasn’t given a lot of TLC; even later anamorphic editions left something to be desired. Predator has always been notable for its heavy grain, due largely to the shooting methods employed when it was originally filmed, and this screen shot demonstrates DVD’s limitations when it comes to accurately resolving the grain (notice how clumpy it is, especially on the green shirt).

Early in Blu-ray’s lifecycle Fox released a bare-bones edition of Predator encoded with MPEG-2 and crammed onto a BD25. The release was not without problems, mainly dirt on the print and compression artefacts that appeared at numerous intervals throughout the film. Even so, I think it’s evident from the screen capture below that this less than ideal release of Predator still offers significant advantages over the DVD release, with superior grain resolution, detail and colour rendition. However, many people were unhappy with this version and clamoured for a remastered release using a modern codec. It appears that Fox was listening, as they are soon to release a ‘digitally restored’ version of the film…

Here we have a screen capture from that new release of the film. I had hoped that Fox would simply take the opportunity to perform some moderate dirt and scratch removal and encode the film with a modern codec like AVC to avoid the bothersome compression issues, but unfortunately it was not to be. They instead went to town on Predator with various digital manipulations designed to ‘improve’ the look of the film, the results of which speak volumes.

This image highlights the problems associated with over-processing a title to make it look more like a modern production in order to appease ‘grain haters’. As previously stated, Predator has historically been a very grainy feature film, but in trying to bring it in line with the quality expected by viewers used to watching glossy high-definition TV and modern blockbusters the disc’s producers have gone too far. You’ll notice how virtually all of the grain has been scrubbed away, leaving the image looking more akin to something shot on video than celluloid. Unfortunately when it comes to film, grain is detail, so when you remove it you also remove elements of the picture that were supposed to be there. Just look at Arnie’s face—he looks like a waxwork! Film is not reality and grain—be it heavy or light—is one of the things that defines the look of a film. The only features that shouldn’t have any grain are those where the filmmakers intend its absence, such as those shot on digital video. Even then many directors chose to add a layer of digital grain to their films for atmospheric purposes ( 300 is a good example of this).
Of course there are some people who prefer this over-sanitised look, but most film enthusiasts would prefer that their Blu-ray releases represent the filmmakers’ original intentions, at least as much as possible. Such overzealous application of DNR is detrimental to the film and is unfortunately becoming more commonplace as the Blu-ray format matures. If you glance up the page to The Wizard of Oz you’ll see that it is entirely possible to restore older films to ‘as-new’ condition without compromising their integrity. However, it is not an inexpensive process, which leads many companies to take the cheaper option of digitally manipulating an older master to create a ‘new’ transfer. It’s unfortunate, and I wish that said companies would simply present a film-like image on their catalogue releases rather than scrubbing them to the point of distraction. The vast majority of HDTVs have viewing modes that will reduce or even eliminate grain, so why not leave it as-is and let the consumer choose whether or not to remove it?
Thankfully images like the one above are the exception rather than the rule (at least for now), and the vast majority of Blu-ray titles look fantastic. So please, the next time one of your favourite catalogue films is released on Blu-ray don’t dismiss it because it wasn’t filmed in ‘HD’. As I hope to have demonstrated here, it is entirely possible to provide beautiful, film-like presentations of features shot twenty, forty, or even seventy years ago. Just be sure to keep an eye on review sites like ours to be sure that what you’re buying is worthy of your hard-earned money!
Editorial by Chris Gould
While true that newer titles are often more visually impressive than catalogue releases, this is largely due to the way in which modern features are filmed and transferred to digital media. Many recent blockbusters—such as James Cameron’s record-breaking Avatar—were shot in digital high-definition. Because no film is involved the resulting images are usually exceptionally clean and the Blu-ray editions are largely flawless. However, the majority of motion pictures were and are shot on 35mm film, which actually has a much greater resolution than Blu-ray and the kind of digital cameras used to film Avatar.
What this means is that with the right amount of care and attention older films are quite capable of looking spectacular on Blu-ray because they already contain more resolution than the format can handle. Of course not all distributors are willing to spend the required time and money to ensure that older titles look their best, but more often than not even the most pedestrian of catalogue titles will offer an improvement over the DVD edition. Let’s take a look at some examples (click the images for larger versions):
First, let’s examine an unassuming film from the early nineties that has received only ‘no-frills’ releases to date. 1993’s Rising Sun (starring Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes) isn’t a particularly glossy movie, and with its grainy image and fairly muted colour palette the DVD release looks a little shoddy by today’s standards.

Now let’s examine the same frame from the Blu-ray release, which is a lowly catalogue title encoded in MPEG-2 and presented on a single-layered BD25. At first the differences appear to be somewhat superficial, but if you take a closer look you’ll see that the grain resolution is far superior and the colours are more natural. You might also notice how the framing has been slightly altered. You might think that it's an odd choice for this article, but I wanted to demonstrate how even less than ideal sources can benefit from the high-definition treatment with even minimal restorative work. It's also worth bearing in mind that the Blu-ray version will look significantly better on larger screens, where even tiny flaws are more noticeable.

Okay, so we’ve looked at one example of how Blu-ray can offer subtle improvements on even the least glamorous of titles, but what about an old classic? For this example let’s go all the way back to 1972 with Francis Ford Coppola’s The Godfather. The original DVD was one of my treasured possessions when it was originally released, but it’s really starting to show its age now.

For the Blu-ray release the film underwent a complete restoration supervised by Coppola himself. The image was cleaned, the colour timing was corrected, and the whole thing was scanned at high-resolution before being transferred to Blu-ray with a high bitrate AVC encode. As you can see, virtually every facet of the image demonstrates a marked improvement over the DVD version. The most obvious enhancement is the level of detail, which reveals hitherto unforeseen texture in clothing and scenery. You can also see that the characters' faces are no longer blurry messes, colour is more natural, and the brightness and contrast have been brought in line with Coppola's original intentions. It still doesn't look like a glossy feature from 2010, but it's not meant to. The purpose of Blu-ray is to offer an audio-visual presentation as close to the filmmakers' intentions as possible, and this is a great example of a director taking the opportunity to create the definitive version of their work.

Now let’s examine a slightly more recent film, Ridley Scott’s 1982 sci-fi classic Blade Runner. This film has received more DVD releases than most, but this screen capture is taken from the director’s cut version released in 2005. It’s a clear step up from the original DVD (which was horrible), and although it has some problems with dirt if you’d never seen another version you could be forgiven for thinking that it’s about as good as the film could ever look. However, with the right amount of time and effort it’s possible to coax even more out of the film, especially on Blu-ray.

This image is taken from the fully restored ‘Final Cut’ of the film on Blu-ray. The improvements should be immediately obvious to anyone. Whereas the bulbs on the giant video wall blurred into one another on the DVD they are now individually identifiable, as are the windows. The text on the various billboards is much sharper, colours are vastly improved, and the image is free from dirt. Blade Runner is yet another example of the huge benefits of involving the filmmakers when creating a new HD release.

Okay, so far we've compared the Blu-ray versions of films to their ageing DVD counterparts, but what if we were to compare a Blu-ray transfer to a DVD transfer that has also been remasterd? Would the differences be as dramatic? For this next comparison let’s go all the way back to 1939 and the classic The Wizard of Oz, which recently underwent a costly and time-consuming restoration. Here's a shot from that DVD.

Looks pretty great, right? Well yes, it does, but what about the Blu-ray? Can it improve on the fully-restored DVD release? You bet it can! The Wizard of Oz is one of the best examples of how to properly restore an older film to its former glory. Just look at all of the detail contained in the image; you can clearly make out the chequered pattern on Dorothy’s dress and the intricate textures of the Good Witch of the North’s costume. Blurry faces and background information become clear and the colours are improved, all without destroying the film grain.

So far we’ve compared the Blu-ray editions of films to both older untouched DVDs and fully restored DVDs. I’d like to think that Blu-ray’s visual advantages are obvious, but there are those who are not always happy with the way films look in high-definition. For our final example we’re going to look at to 1987’s Predator, starring everyone’s favourite ‘Governator’. The DVD release wasn’t given a lot of TLC; even later anamorphic editions left something to be desired. Predator has always been notable for its heavy grain, due largely to the shooting methods employed when it was originally filmed, and this screen shot demonstrates DVD’s limitations when it comes to accurately resolving the grain (notice how clumpy it is, especially on the green shirt).

Early in Blu-ray’s lifecycle Fox released a bare-bones edition of Predator encoded with MPEG-2 and crammed onto a BD25. The release was not without problems, mainly dirt on the print and compression artefacts that appeared at numerous intervals throughout the film. Even so, I think it’s evident from the screen capture below that this less than ideal release of Predator still offers significant advantages over the DVD release, with superior grain resolution, detail and colour rendition. However, many people were unhappy with this version and clamoured for a remastered release using a modern codec. It appears that Fox was listening, as they are soon to release a ‘digitally restored’ version of the film…

Here we have a screen capture from that new release of the film. I had hoped that Fox would simply take the opportunity to perform some moderate dirt and scratch removal and encode the film with a modern codec like AVC to avoid the bothersome compression issues, but unfortunately it was not to be. They instead went to town on Predator with various digital manipulations designed to ‘improve’ the look of the film, the results of which speak volumes.

This image highlights the problems associated with over-processing a title to make it look more like a modern production in order to appease ‘grain haters’. As previously stated, Predator has historically been a very grainy feature film, but in trying to bring it in line with the quality expected by viewers used to watching glossy high-definition TV and modern blockbusters the disc’s producers have gone too far. You’ll notice how virtually all of the grain has been scrubbed away, leaving the image looking more akin to something shot on video than celluloid. Unfortunately when it comes to film, grain is detail, so when you remove it you also remove elements of the picture that were supposed to be there. Just look at Arnie’s face—he looks like a waxwork! Film is not reality and grain—be it heavy or light—is one of the things that defines the look of a film. The only features that shouldn’t have any grain are those where the filmmakers intend its absence, such as those shot on digital video. Even then many directors chose to add a layer of digital grain to their films for atmospheric purposes ( 300 is a good example of this).
Of course there are some people who prefer this over-sanitised look, but most film enthusiasts would prefer that their Blu-ray releases represent the filmmakers’ original intentions, at least as much as possible. Such overzealous application of DNR is detrimental to the film and is unfortunately becoming more commonplace as the Blu-ray format matures. If you glance up the page to The Wizard of Oz you’ll see that it is entirely possible to restore older films to ‘as-new’ condition without compromising their integrity. However, it is not an inexpensive process, which leads many companies to take the cheaper option of digitally manipulating an older master to create a ‘new’ transfer. It’s unfortunate, and I wish that said companies would simply present a film-like image on their catalogue releases rather than scrubbing them to the point of distraction. The vast majority of HDTVs have viewing modes that will reduce or even eliminate grain, so why not leave it as-is and let the consumer choose whether or not to remove it?
Thankfully images like the one above are the exception rather than the rule (at least for now), and the vast majority of Blu-ray titles look fantastic. So please, the next time one of your favourite catalogue films is released on Blu-ray don’t dismiss it because it wasn’t filmed in ‘HD’. As I hope to have demonstrated here, it is entirely possible to provide beautiful, film-like presentations of features shot twenty, forty, or even seventy years ago. Just be sure to keep an eye on review sites like ours to be sure that what you’re buying is worthy of your hard-earned money!
Editorial by Chris Gould
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This is the second article I've seen this week talking about catalog titles on Blu. And more than anything else, it seems to be Predator that has triggered it off. Both the articles use the same screen capture as well!
I own very few Blu-rays and out of them, the older ones are Gone With the Wind, Casablanca and Bladerunner. I think Warner did an amazing job on the classics. I am glad to have them. And I bought the Bladerunner 5-disc Blu-ray set, even though I already had the Deckard Briefcase DVD version, because I wanted the best possible presentation of that movie. I have no regrets whatsoever!
Predator is my favourite Schwarzenegger movie and I have been dying to buy it on home video. The first DVD was no good, the special edition seemed slap-dash in terms of extras, so it wasn't high on my list. Then the Blu-ray comes out and I didn't buy it 'cos it had no special features. This release was supposed to be the best one..... sadly, it isn't. I really don't seem to have much of a choice with respect to this movie.
I was fortunate enough to watch Predator on the big screen and I would love that presentation in my home. Maybe I'll just pick this Blu-ray up and see how bad it is. Still, I would have loved a more care on this one.
I hope some studios do a good job with their catalog titles. I'm particularly looking forward to The Maltese Falcon on Blu-ray. I also plan to pick up Psycho. I hope it's good.
I own very few Blu-rays and out of them, the older ones are Gone With the Wind, Casablanca and Bladerunner. I think Warner did an amazing job on the classics. I am glad to have them. And I bought the Bladerunner 5-disc Blu-ray set, even though I already had the Deckard Briefcase DVD version, because I wanted the best possible presentation of that movie. I have no regrets whatsoever!
Predator is my favourite Schwarzenegger movie and I have been dying to buy it on home video. The first DVD was no good, the special edition seemed slap-dash in terms of extras, so it wasn't high on my list. Then the Blu-ray comes out and I didn't buy it 'cos it had no special features. This release was supposed to be the best one..... sadly, it isn't. I really don't seem to have much of a choice with respect to this movie.
I was fortunate enough to watch Predator on the big screen and I would love that presentation in my home. Maybe I'll just pick this Blu-ray up and see how bad it is. Still, I would have loved a more care on this one.
I hope some studios do a good job with their catalog titles. I'm particularly looking forward to The Maltese Falcon on Blu-ray. I also plan to pick up Psycho. I hope it's good.
The difference in quality when transfering an older title to Blu-Ray obviously depends upon the conditions of the materials used and the mastering process itself.
There's nothing wrong with grain on a movie - we would certainly prefer to have grain on an older Blu title, rather than it being DNR'd to the point where there is a sheen over the image and where everyone on-screen looks like waxwork exhibits.
One of us was watching the Blue Underground Blu-Ray of New York Ripper last night and there is a healthy amount of grain on the image that makes it more pleasing to watch than something that has been buffed and processed into something that is devoid of natural qualities and looks shot on Hi-Def video. Blue Underground are usually pretty good with their titles (apart from a couple of recent releases, which have been called into question after allegations of DNR and then putting artificial grain over the top).
Older titles can look magnificent on Blu-Ray and if they are transfered with care, whilst trying to maintain the origain theatrical look, then all but the most ingnorant Blu-Ray consumer won't gripe about a little bit of grain on the image.
Oh,and regarding Psycho - Universal had better not balls that one up, as we always held off getting it on DVD and surely such a classic and important film as this is going to be properly transfered and not DNRd in order to eliminate grain and make it more appealing to the "yoof" element who have vaguely heard it, but might be put off by grain? We hope not.
The Wilson Bros
There's nothing wrong with grain on a movie - we would certainly prefer to have grain on an older Blu title, rather than it being DNR'd to the point where there is a sheen over the image and where everyone on-screen looks like waxwork exhibits.
One of us was watching the Blue Underground Blu-Ray of New York Ripper last night and there is a healthy amount of grain on the image that makes it more pleasing to watch than something that has been buffed and processed into something that is devoid of natural qualities and looks shot on Hi-Def video. Blue Underground are usually pretty good with their titles (apart from a couple of recent releases, which have been called into question after allegations of DNR and then putting artificial grain over the top).
Older titles can look magnificent on Blu-Ray and if they are transfered with care, whilst trying to maintain the origain theatrical look, then all but the most ingnorant Blu-Ray consumer won't gripe about a little bit of grain on the image.
Oh,and regarding Psycho - Universal had better not balls that one up, as we always held off getting it on DVD and surely such a classic and important film as this is going to be properly transfered and not DNRd in order to eliminate grain and make it more appealing to the "yoof" element who have vaguely heard it, but might be put off by grain? We hope not.
The Wilson Bros
I'm afraid I didn't get my Blu-ray review copy of Predator in the mail until Wednesday, so my review is running late. I'll just verify that it looks more or less like ass for about half of the film, much more consistently bad than The Good the Bad and the Ugly. Still not as blobby as Near Dark though.
I think it's fairly clear that if a studio doesn't take some time and care with transferring a pre-HD movie onto Blu-Ray, it'll end up rather less than "the look and sound of perfect". I don't trust the studios do this each and every time, especially when the process will cost them money. It's why I'm still yet to be convinced about Blu-Ray.
triply wrote: This is the second article I've seen this week talking about catalog titles on Blu. And more than anything else, it seems to be Predator that has triggered it off. Both the articles use the same screen capture as well!
I actually started writing this ages ago, but never got around to finishing it. When I revisited it I decided to include a bit about the perils of over-processing and those Predator images had just started doing the rounds so it seemed a natural choice. I needed a film where I owned both the DVD and the older BD to get comparison shots, and that was about the only one that fit the bill.
I tend to steer clear of titles that have been heavily filtered if possible, so I don't really own that many. Some that spring to mind are:
Dark City
Patton
The Star Trek movies (especially part six)
Gladiator
The Lord of the Rings movies (partially)
There are numerous others. Many of Universal's catalogue titles have DNR applied to them and actually show less detail than the old HD DVD releases. The Thing is a good example of that. In fact, Universal are probably the biggest offender.
Of course DNR isn't the only thing that will ruin a catalogue title. I sat through the old release of Dirty Dancing with the Mrs last night, and while she enjoyed it I could barely stand to watch it. It's probably one of the worst BD transfers I've ever seen. The whole film has a ridiculous amount of aliasing that showed up on every object (it's most noticeable on white though). There's red push in the colours, quite a lot of film artefacts, and the sound is terrible for an uncompressed 6.1 LPCM track.
I actually started writing this ages ago, but never got around to finishing it. When I revisited it I decided to include a bit about the perils of over-processing and those Predator images had just started doing the rounds so it seemed a natural choice. I needed a film where I owned both the DVD and the older BD to get comparison shots, and that was about the only one that fit the bill.
I tend to steer clear of titles that have been heavily filtered if possible, so I don't really own that many. Some that spring to mind are:
Dark City
Patton
The Star Trek movies (especially part six)
Gladiator
The Lord of the Rings movies (partially)
There are numerous others. Many of Universal's catalogue titles have DNR applied to them and actually show less detail than the old HD DVD releases. The Thing is a good example of that. In fact, Universal are probably the biggest offender.
Of course DNR isn't the only thing that will ruin a catalogue title. I sat through the old release of Dirty Dancing with the Mrs last night, and while she enjoyed it I could barely stand to watch it. It's probably one of the worst BD transfers I've ever seen. The whole film has a ridiculous amount of aliasing that showed up on every object (it's most noticeable on white though). There's red push in the colours, quite a lot of film artefacts, and the sound is terrible for an uncompressed 6.1 LPCM track.
Great article thanks Chris.
It's obvious the second Predator capture is the clear winner. Regarding the third capture, is it from the actual blu-ray or from one of the jpegs doing the rounds? If it's the former, is the rest of the film as bad?
I'm reclined to buying the old blu-ray but want to wait for a review first, just in case this is a particularly bad scene.
p.s - Many of Paramounts HD-DVDs/BDs are heavily DVNRed too. Face/Off being a good example of this.
Cassidy wrote: It's why I'm still yet to be convinced about Blu-Ray.
Many BDs come with an SE DVD, using the same new master.
Chris Gould wrote: The Star Trek movies (especially part six)
Gladiator
The Lord of the Rings movies (partially)
Gladiator is indeed a mess. It is better than the DVD though, overall! IMO. Thankfully a new BD is coming.
I cannot believe they messed up LOTR (it's so new as it is and already looks ace). I cannot believe they messed up the Star Trek movies too. I love Parts 2 and 6 :-(.
It's obvious the second Predator capture is the clear winner. Regarding the third capture, is it from the actual blu-ray or from one of the jpegs doing the rounds? If it's the former, is the rest of the film as bad?
I'm reclined to buying the old blu-ray but want to wait for a review first, just in case this is a particularly bad scene.
p.s - Many of Paramounts HD-DVDs/BDs are heavily DVNRed too. Face/Off being a good example of this.
Cassidy wrote: It's why I'm still yet to be convinced about Blu-Ray.
Many BDs come with an SE DVD, using the same new master.
Chris Gould wrote: The Star Trek movies (especially part six)
Gladiator
The Lord of the Rings movies (partially)
Gladiator is indeed a mess. It is better than the DVD though, overall! IMO. Thankfully a new BD is coming.
I cannot believe they messed up LOTR (it's so new as it is and already looks ace). I cannot believe they messed up the Star Trek movies too. I love Parts 2 and 6 :-(.
Great article Chris.
Anyone who is new to blu-ray or isn't a film enthusiast should read this so they can understand exactly what is being sold to them when they buy a BD.
I'm lucky enough to have an all region BD player so I import a lot of the Criterion discs. Usually, they are quite heavy with grain (well, the films I buy are) and at first can appear to be little more than upscaled DVDs. But baring in mind all the points you raised in the article, you can see just what an amazing job they do. I watched Play Time last night, which looked superb on BD and Stagecoach the night before, which due to its age (71 years) looked as good as its going to get.
Mssrs Wilson were speaking of Blue Underground... I watched Two Evil Eyes the night before and that disc has the most grain I've ever seen on a BD. Although, as you rightly point out, this is how it was supposed to look, and Blue Underground did the correct thing in not scrubbing away all the grain with DNR.
BTW... slight tangeant here, the lady in your signature... it's just a guess, but do you know who the photgrapher is for the picture on the right? At a guess I would say Fatimah Nandar or Steve Lawton, or as a long-shot Robert Workman. Just wondering.
Top article!
Anyone who is new to blu-ray or isn't a film enthusiast should read this so they can understand exactly what is being sold to them when they buy a BD.
I'm lucky enough to have an all region BD player so I import a lot of the Criterion discs. Usually, they are quite heavy with grain (well, the films I buy are) and at first can appear to be little more than upscaled DVDs. But baring in mind all the points you raised in the article, you can see just what an amazing job they do. I watched Play Time last night, which looked superb on BD and Stagecoach the night before, which due to its age (71 years) looked as good as its going to get.
Mssrs Wilson were speaking of Blue Underground... I watched Two Evil Eyes the night before and that disc has the most grain I've ever seen on a BD. Although, as you rightly point out, this is how it was supposed to look, and Blue Underground did the correct thing in not scrubbing away all the grain with DNR.
BTW... slight tangeant here, the lady in your signature... it's just a guess, but do you know who the photgrapher is for the picture on the right? At a guess I would say Fatimah Nandar or Steve Lawton, or as a long-shot Robert Workman. Just wondering.
Top article!
interesting article. Bill Hunt`s going ape on his site about DNR!
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/index.html#mytwoc...
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/index.html#mytwoc...
toonloon wrote: BTW... slight tangeant here, the lady in your signature... it's just a guess, but do you know who the photgrapher is for the picture on the right? At a guess I would say Fatimah Nandar or Steve Lawton, or as a long-shot Robert Workman. Just wondering.
I'm afraid I don't know. I just found several images of the same (relatively unknown) actress and decided to combine them.
I'm afraid I don't know. I just found several images of the same (relatively unknown) actress and decided to combine them.
Movies that need to be on Blu-Ray soon:
STAR WARS 1-6
FINDING NEMO
INDIANA JONES 1-3 (will get them all including part 4)
SHREK 1 & 2
FORBIDDEN PLANET (saw that on TV and I think it'll look cool on Blu-Ray, is it out on Blu-Ray)
THE INCREDIBLES (oh yeah, can't forget about that, but I would rather watch NEMO on BD)
STAR WARS 1-6
FINDING NEMO
INDIANA JONES 1-3 (will get them all including part 4)
SHREK 1 & 2
FORBIDDEN PLANET (saw that on TV and I think it'll look cool on Blu-Ray, is it out on Blu-Ray)
THE INCREDIBLES (oh yeah, can't forget about that, but I would rather watch NEMO on BD)
Thanks for this, Chris. Its a great summation of the old arguments, and now I can just direct people to your article rather than have to explain things all over again!
Pixarfan517 wrote: Movies that need to be on Blu-Ray soon:
STAR WARS 1-6
FINDING NEMO
INDIANA JONES 1-3 (will get them all including part 4)
SHREK 1 & 2
FORBIDDEN PLANET (saw that on TV and I think it'll look cool on Blu-Ray, is it out on Blu-Ray)
THE INCREDIBLES (oh yeah, can't forget about that, but I would rather watch NEMO on BD)
you're in luck, i cant speak for Incredibles and Forbidden Planet but the rest have all been announced to be coming in the near future so woo. lol
oh wait i didnt hear anything about the Indy movies but the extras on the Part 4 disc showed footage from them which were obviously remastered and they looked amazing so they are all done and ready so i'm sure they're just waiting for an excuse like an anniversary or something to release em. lol
STAR WARS 1-6
FINDING NEMO
INDIANA JONES 1-3 (will get them all including part 4)
SHREK 1 & 2
FORBIDDEN PLANET (saw that on TV and I think it'll look cool on Blu-Ray, is it out on Blu-Ray)
THE INCREDIBLES (oh yeah, can't forget about that, but I would rather watch NEMO on BD)
you're in luck, i cant speak for Incredibles and Forbidden Planet but the rest have all been announced to be coming in the near future so woo. lol
oh wait i didnt hear anything about the Indy movies but the extras on the Part 4 disc showed footage from them which were obviously remastered and they looked amazing so they are all done and ready so i'm sure they're just waiting for an excuse like an anniversary or something to release em. lol
toonloon wrote: Anyone who is new to blu-ray or isn't a film enthusiast should read this so they can understand exactly what is being sold to them when they buy a BD.
Sadly it's the majority of blu-ray owners who've got us into this mess.
Sadly it's the majority of blu-ray owners who've got us into this mess.
Great article Chris, I certainly rely on reviews now as to whether I purchase on Bluray, whether it is a new buy or an upgrade from a dvd. Two examples are Minority Report and War of the Worlds, two titles which received faithful transfers so I had no problem at all upgrading. Bob Gale has stated that the BTTF Trilogy BD transfers look fantastic so thats one release which should be worth it.
In regards to Predator, Fox seem to have taken to heart all the negative comments too much. Most people are saying the Hunter edition looks like something Pixar would produce. It's a pity because this release should have been a worthy double dip. If anyone is thinking about buying it its 13.99 on amazonUS and its region AB. I think I will buy the Predator 1+2 boxset as its cheap enough on Play, and keep my original 2 disc dvd for the special features.
In regards to Predator, Fox seem to have taken to heart all the negative comments too much. Most people are saying the Hunter edition looks like something Pixar would produce. It's a pity because this release should have been a worthy double dip. If anyone is thinking about buying it its 13.99 on amazonUS and its region AB. I think I will buy the Predator 1+2 boxset as its cheap enough on Play, and keep my original 2 disc dvd for the special features.
Great article. As somebody who owns a lot of older movies on blu-ray, its clear where I stand. Even very old movies, like Battleship Potempkin or Buster Keaton's The General have astoundingly better images on blu-ray, just because the DVD format doesn't offer enough resolution to show all the detail that exists on the film.
I'm teeming with excitement about the upcoming Psycho, Maltese Falcon, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, and original King Kong releases.
I'm teeming with excitement about the upcoming Psycho, Maltese Falcon, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, and original King Kong releases.
One word: Aliens.
Aliens has way more grain then Predator- I am scared c**pless that the blu-ray of aliens this fall will be a disaster in line with Predator-
"Bob Gale has stated that the BTTF Trilogy BD transfers look fantastic"
he would say another so someone will triple dip BUT..
His full quote
"“The HD transfers for all three films are simply breath-taking,” Gale told BTTF.com. “They actually look better than they did in the theater because of the incredible job that was done on dirt clean-up. (And the film grain is preserved, so they still look like movies should look.) And hearing the sound in full dynamic range is — okay, I’ll say it — a blast!”"
eh.... sounds like a producer who looked at portions of a film that was drenched with DNR...
i'm kidding, i hope they are awesome-
Aliens has way more grain then Predator- I am scared c**pless that the blu-ray of aliens this fall will be a disaster in line with Predator-
"Bob Gale has stated that the BTTF Trilogy BD transfers look fantastic"
he would say another so someone will triple dip BUT..
His full quote
"“The HD transfers for all three films are simply breath-taking,” Gale told BTTF.com. “They actually look better than they did in the theater because of the incredible job that was done on dirt clean-up. (And the film grain is preserved, so they still look like movies should look.) And hearing the sound in full dynamic range is — okay, I’ll say it — a blast!”"
eh.... sounds like a producer who looked at portions of a film that was drenched with DNR...
i'm kidding, i hope they are awesome-
I love the article. Presenting the best image on Blu-ray or DVD takes effort. I was looking at the DVD transfer of STARGATE and was amazed on how bad teh transfer was (when they said it was digitally remastered). I hope the blu-ray transfer looks better.
I've been waiting for Fox to f**k up Aliens for some time not too. The other three films in the series are going to look great with little effort, but Cameron's film choice, and all the backscreen projection work make for a much different experience. They're kind of in the no-win situation they were in with Predator. If they leave in the grain people will b***h, if they DNR the grain out, people will b***h. Maybe Cameron will be involved?
Cameron is too busy counting his Avatar money and cleaning up the oil spill. But I'll keep my fingers crossed.
On a side note, I wish Miramax and Universal's Focus Features would put more of their older movies out on blu-ray. Universal typically does an amazing job on image, and I would kill to have Thirst, Motorcycle Diaries, Lost in Translation, Eternal Sunshine, and 21 Grams on the format.
On a side note, I wish Miramax and Universal's Focus Features would put more of their older movies out on blu-ray. Universal typically does an amazing job on image, and I would kill to have Thirst, Motorcycle Diaries, Lost in Translation, Eternal Sunshine, and 21 Grams on the format.
One imagines he'll be involved. He has enough clout to dictate how his films look, hence the long delay for The Terminator and True Lies on BD (he has to approve them).
hogaburger wrote: Cameron is too busy counting his Avatar money and cleaning up the oil spill. But I'll keep my fingers crossed.
On a side note, I wish Miramax and Universal's Focus Features would put more of their older movies out on blu-ray. Universal typically does an amazing job on image, and I would kill to have Thirst, Motorcycle Diaries, Lost in Translation, Eternal Sunshine, and 21 Grams on the format.
yeah, it will be interesting to see if they even touched it since the first dvd- the quad version seemed to use the same transfer as the first dvd-
I can't imagine them putting the alien series out and having it right the first time, there would be no reason to double dip-
On a side note, I wish Miramax and Universal's Focus Features would put more of their older movies out on blu-ray. Universal typically does an amazing job on image, and I would kill to have Thirst, Motorcycle Diaries, Lost in Translation, Eternal Sunshine, and 21 Grams on the format.
yeah, it will be interesting to see if they even touched it since the first dvd- the quad version seemed to use the same transfer as the first dvd-
I can't imagine them putting the alien series out and having it right the first time, there would be no reason to double dip-
Sorry Chris, I thought perhaps you knew the young lady.
I thought she was an actress because the picture on the far right is a CV headshot for Spotlight, probably taken by one of those photographers. The other shots are modelling photos. Nice looking girl.
I thought she was an actress because the picture on the far right is a CV headshot for Spotlight, probably taken by one of those photographers. The other shots are modelling photos. Nice looking girl.
Excellent article. Older films can look outstanding on blu-ray as long as the discs producer keep the film`s intergrity alive and don`t "over -DNR" it.
I hope that the Forbidden Planet bd is gonna look awesome
I hope that the Forbidden Planet bd is gonna look awesome
toonloon wrote: Sorry Chris, I thought perhaps you knew the young lady.
I thought she was an actress because the picture on the far right is a CV headshot for Spotlight, probably taken by one of those photographers. The other shots are modelling photos. Nice looking girl.
Indeed. Gemma Chan. She's currently in the Bing ads, was on the IT Crowd last night, and has been in Doctor Who. She was also in that film about mobile phone ghosts coming to get you (When Evil Calls). It would be nice if I did know her, but alas life is not that kind!
I thought she was an actress because the picture on the far right is a CV headshot for Spotlight, probably taken by one of those photographers. The other shots are modelling photos. Nice looking girl.
Indeed. Gemma Chan. She's currently in the Bing ads, was on the IT Crowd last night, and has been in Doctor Who. She was also in that film about mobile phone ghosts coming to get you (When Evil Calls). It would be nice if I did know her, but alas life is not that kind!
Gabe Powers wrote: If they leave in the grain people will b***h, if they DNR the grain out, people will b***h.
Yes! That's the point, man. This whole DNR vs Grain matter is like Darth Maul's dual bladed lightsaber. You have to be careful with it or you will get stabbed. sadly, not all blu-ray owners are movie freak like everyone in this forum (me included). They are common people who expect absolute clarity over detail (grain included) from their Blus. They will feel cheated when they can still see the presence of grain in the movie and then lambast the studio. So, my one question now is who's the majority of Blu owners that the studios so concern about? is it the grain-haters or the grain-lovers, that's the only thing that matters.
For me, I still think that there are some old movies that don't need the upgrade due to the terrible source (remember Gojira?) and the only slight/tiny/unimportant improvement in pic quality over the DVD (Gladiator will be the perfect example) which really don't worth the extra money. I also think that animation from DC-WB don't need the HD treatment since their picture are so simple. A competent DVD will do the job.
Yes! That's the point, man. This whole DNR vs Grain matter is like Darth Maul's dual bladed lightsaber. You have to be careful with it or you will get stabbed. sadly, not all blu-ray owners are movie freak like everyone in this forum (me included). They are common people who expect absolute clarity over detail (grain included) from their Blus. They will feel cheated when they can still see the presence of grain in the movie and then lambast the studio. So, my one question now is who's the majority of Blu owners that the studios so concern about? is it the grain-haters or the grain-lovers, that's the only thing that matters.
For me, I still think that there are some old movies that don't need the upgrade due to the terrible source (remember Gojira?) and the only slight/tiny/unimportant improvement in pic quality over the DVD (Gladiator will be the perfect example) which really don't worth the extra money. I also think that animation from DC-WB don't need the HD treatment since their picture are so simple. A competent DVD will do the job.
I don't agree about the DC-WB stuff. 2D Animation in HD is well worth the upgrade, even if the style is with a lower budget than say, Disney, the sharpness of the image makes all the difference.
I also disagree about Gladiator. It has a lot of problems, but even at its worst it's a lot better than the DVD. Not sure how you can have clarity without detail either.
Marcus1138 wrote: I don't agree about the DC-WB stuff. 2D Animation in HD is well worth the upgrade, even if the style is with a lower budget than say, Disney, the sharpness of the image makes all the difference.
i'm in the same boat, i have a few of their blu movies and the picture is just gorgeous. same with the Futurama movies, i have the first 2 on dvd and the last 2 on blu and as great as the image is on dvd, the blu is just that much better.
i think it comes down to the fact that these days, cel animated cartoons made for tv/dvd are colored by computer so the image really pops on disc. i mean even dvd looks much better than when it originally airs on television. thats why i can't wait til Simpsons hits season 17 because thats when they started coloring with computers and they will look oh so pretty.
i'm in the same boat, i have a few of their blu movies and the picture is just gorgeous. same with the Futurama movies, i have the first 2 on dvd and the last 2 on blu and as great as the image is on dvd, the blu is just that much better.
i think it comes down to the fact that these days, cel animated cartoons made for tv/dvd are colored by computer so the image really pops on disc. i mean even dvd looks much better than when it originally airs on television. thats why i can't wait til Simpsons hits season 17 because thats when they started coloring with computers and they will look oh so pretty.




but regarding "waxy arnold", yeah he does sorta look that way but whats it look like in movement? i often hear that complaint but have yet to witnsess it i think. maybe i've just lucked out and none of the movies i own have been DNR'ed.
but if anyone can make a short list, like 10-20 movies that they know had this done i'd appreciate it. maybe name big some major release so it hightens the odds i own one. because i am curious to see if its as bad as people say.
i bring this up because i do own a number of movies where the reviews stated the image sucked and i thought it was great if not amazing. so maybe its one of those things only the real hardcore techheads can notice? lol
anyway yeah, that was a great article and i hope it helps some people realize HD isn't relagated to recent releases. again maybe its just my "untrained" eyes but 2 other catalogue titles i think looked amazing are Big Trouble in Little China and The Last Starfighter. i can't believe how nice, crisp and detailed the images are. they truly look like they came out recently and not in an over-sanitized way. lol