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BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD

Forums - Discs & Movies - BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD 

10th October 2007 5:07  #1

stanton heck Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,098
BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD
I am thinking about upgrading but notUntil there is a clear winner in the latest format war.  ANy idea who is might win?

10th October 2007 5:41  #2

Jersey Jedi Member Join Date: August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 714
Check DVDFile.com's editorials. They're roughly on a weekly basis and they're the most unbiased and well informed articles on the format war.

But for right now Blu-Ray has a pretty decent lead in america and a much larger one overseas, but it can still go either way and probably wont end for a while.

10th October 2007 6:51  #3

Director7 Member Join Date: June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 290
Who says BluRay has a decent lead? They lead in disc sales, but that's mainly because of PS3.

Hardware sales are what matter, and Toshiba is leading, BY FAR, in that category.

Buying a standalone player is a huge statement in devotion to a format. Buying a Gaming Platform (PS3) and saying "well I also have a BluRay player" does not show intent to support BluRay, it's intent to support PS3 and having a bonus feature.

I'm not for either format, I'm for HD Movies, so I bought both stand alone players, and about 60 movies in each format, so no-one say I'm anti-BluRay.

I just hate the common misconception that BluRay is somehow "leading". Everyone can put a market spin on the word "leading" and not specify in just what they lead in.

Last I read, HD-DVD and BluRay were BOTH "losing" seeing as how they only make up 4% or so in overall DVD-Disc sales. And both companies have poured tons of money into hoping success, but neither have made a return.


******To answer your question, you have ONLY 2 options******

1. Wait YEARS, yes years before there is a CLEAR winner and miss out on Hd glory

2. Buy now and enjoy HD movies, even if you own the losing format in 2-3 years, that's about when you re-buy DVD-Player hardware anyway (if your techy)...

...and as for owning losing format movies? People double dip for new releases all the time (ask anyone at DVDActive,) re-buying a movie in a couple years or less isnt all that bad.

P.S. - This is not directed to you Jersey, just a venting process.

10th October 2007 9:31  #4

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,115 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD
stanton heck wrote: I am thinking about upgrading but notUntil there is a clear winner in the latest format war.  ANy idea who is might win?

Not the consumer, that's for sure.

10th October 2007 10:27  #5

BoBoi Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 1,109 Send a message via MSN to BoBoi Send a message via Yahoo to BoBoi
To me, HD DVD has a slight edge in the quality themselves, especially in the extras department - early tackled on Web-Anabled Features and High-Def Exclusive Extras. If the same movie is release in both formats, I chose HD DVD always, and that mostly are Warner releases. However, the Combo releases, I don't like them at all. I also own a fair share of Blu-Ray releases as well - some releaes are absolutely brilliant like 'The Prestige' for instance.

I'm not saying that it's generally 'must be' better, it's just a matter of taste really...

Although I see no clear winner for this so called 'Format War', and I do very much believe that both will co-exist, at least until the next formats come along. Both camps put in too much money to completely diminish their format.

So perhaps, your best alternative is to either buy both formats or look for a Combo Players - it's the only way you would have the complete collection of movies on high-definition in respect of all distributors.

To be honest, I think this 'Format War' is absolutely ridiculous - and as Chris has stated above, the consumers are not benefiting from this split - most are unsure of what to go for and thus, the point of having a high-def format is that so people would mostly benefit from them and enjoy high standards of film experience at home - not to get drag into this whole mess as well...

10th October 2007 12:39  #6

Disciple Member Join Date: April 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 765
On the other hand BoBoi, consumers DO actually benefit from this as players are becoming cheaper and cheaper a lot faster than they would have if it was just the one format. There's a $199 HD DVD player released for Christmas.

I also have both HD DVD and Blu-Ray and I have to agree with you BoBoi, I would always go for the HD DVD version if it's released on both formats. As a big fan of movies, i live for the extras and HD DVD is the clear winner in this field.

10th October 2007 13:43  #7

£ukasz D Member Join Date: August 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 859 Send a message via Skype to £ukasz D
i'm waiting for the winer to...and relay hope that it will be HD DVD - i prefer the look of the box for start..and as BoBoi posted, bether quality.

10th October 2007 14:04  #8

Worst Nightmare Senior Member Join Date: July 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 6,706 Send a message via AIM to Worst Nightmare Send a message via ICQ to Worst Nightmare Send a message via MSN to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Yahoo to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Google to Worst Nightmare
The way is to simply get a combo player, as mentioned above. It is really the only way togo. But it's hard to guess which way it's going to go and you cannot really future proof anything now.
What are we going to do when they release the 3 and 4 layer discs and then we all have to upgrade the players anyway?

10th October 2007 18:06  #9

stanton heck Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,098
I meant who might win.  I just got a hd tv so I was thinking of upgrading the dvd player.

10th October 2007 18:57  #10

Jonny "Me You" Senior Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,863
Don't think either format is going to win. Neither one offers a substantial value over standard DVD. They're both going to either fail completely, or more likely remain a niche product like LaserDisc was.

That said, I have an xbox 360 and a new HDTV so I traded some old stuff into an EB Games and got a free HD DVD addon. Although, if I wasnt able to get rid of stuff I didnt want anyways, I wouldnt have one. I still havent gotten a movie for it yet, just King Kong that came with it.

If I were to actually buy a stand alone player now, it would have to be a fully working combo player and it would have to cost $200 or less. Until that happens, I don't think either format is going to take off.

10th October 2007 19:34  #11

Director7 Member Join Date: June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 290
BoBoi wrote: I do very much believe that both will co-exist, at least until the next formats come along. Both camps put in too much money to completely diminish their formatWell said, and probably true. Nobody just gives up after that much money invested.


BoBoi wrote: The way is to simply get a combo playerThat's what my friend did. But the combo technology is so new, that I'm wary of committing $1,000 to it, even though his works fine.

10th October 2007 21:40  #12

stanton heck Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,098
I thought of a combo player but I will waite on that as well.  I am afraid that it will break down. I guess in 2 years it will have something

11th October 2007 12:51  #13

Jersey Jedi Member Join Date: August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 714
I really can't get be hind the logic that hardware sales determine the 'winner' in this war. Yeah, I understand the logic that buying the player means that you are more invested in the format and probably would buy more software in the long run. But that's no guarantee. And the only stakeholders who are affected by hardware sales are the manufactures. What matters right now are how the studios benefit from the format. So in that regard, software is definitely paramount (no pun intended).

As for the argument that PS3s are somehow not as worthy as standalone players (yet somehow the HD-DVD add on for XBox 360 is), that's just splitting hairs. I know plenty of people who purchased a PS3 specifically because of the BD capabilities. And if Playstation 3 software sales are any indication, it's safe to assume that a significant percentage of owners don't really use it as a gaming platform anyway.

Personally, I see all of these major players in the hardware segment of the market all supporting Blu-Ray (Samsung, Panasonic, and LG, in addition to Sony) while only Toshiba has support for their format, as an indication that Blu-Ray is, at least from a technological standpoint, a superior format. As of right now, yes, HD-DVD definitely has the advantage in interactive special features. But with the implementation of BD-J, that advantage is going to be a moot point very soon.

And regarding the visual and audio quality of HD-DVD being somehow superior to Blu-Ray, that simply is an unjustified claim. While HD-DVD again had superior picture when it was first introduced, at this point, if you look at the massive amount of reviews out there, or even judge by yourself, there really is no noticeable difference in quality. And the fact is that in the long run, Blu-Ray will definitely have superior quality simply because of the larger storage capacity. The more room you have on the disc, the high bit rate wil be available. very simple. It's most likely that within a year they'll be implementing a quad-layer BD that has a 100GB capacity. And in the future, it has the capacity for a octo-layer disc for 200GB, and a firmware upgrade is all Blu-Ray players need to be compatible.

Really, at this point, I just want one format (ANY format) to be chosen and used by all the studios, so I can invest and know that my investment is protected in the long run. I am of the opinion that HD-DVD is just a stop gap technology, and the Blu-Ray is a further evolution from DVD. But really, I just want an HD format on disc before downloads become the standard.

11th October 2007 18:32  #14

Matt Contributor Join Date: October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2,113
Jersey Jedi wrote: And the fact is that in the long run, Blu-Ray will definitely have superior quality simply because of the larger storage capacity. The more room you have on the disc, the high bit rate wil be available. very simple.A bit more important than the disc space is the transfer rate of each format, which is about 36 Mbps for HD DVD and 54 for Blu-ray. As a comparison standard DVD has a transfer rate of about 11 Mbps, so HD DVD has 3x the transfer rate of standard DVD and Blu-ray has 5x the transfer rate of standard DVDs.

11th October 2007 22:54  #15

Jersey Jedi Member Join Date: August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 714
Matt wrote: Jersey Jedi wrote: And the fact is that in the long run, Blu-Ray will definitely have superior quality simply because of the larger storage capacity. The more room you have on the disc, the high bit rate wil be available. very simple.A bit more important than the disc space is the transfer rate of each format, which is about 36 Mbps for HD DVD and 54 for Blu-ray. As a comparison standard DVD has a transfer rate of about 11 Mbps, so HD DVD has 3x the transfer rate of standard DVD and Blu-ray has 5x the transfer rate of standard DVDs.

Damn, I knew I left an important technological detail out. You ever get that, when you type a ton and then just forget half your points? Good call though Matt.

20th October 2007 19:05  #16

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
Mad (not particularly thought through) idea for Sony.

Start releasing titles on HD-DVD. It'll freak out Toshiba and Microsoft no end.

Think how many units of Siderman, Casino Royale and Click you'll shift. Okay, perhaps not Click but it would be worth it to see all the industry types try to make sense of it.

25th October 2007 18:56  #17

Gunsprout Member Join Date: March 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 171
DON'T CARE! DON'T CARE! DON'T CARE!!!!!!

As long as movies continue to be released on dvd I'm not touching either of the new formats with a barge pole!!!

25th October 2007 20:38  #18

Director7 Member Join Date: June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 290
What I never liked was fanboys. People follow these "wars" like it truly matters who wins, sure it's human nature to pick a side, but why do people REALLY care?

People say "I'm not buying HD-DVD, I love Blu-Ray" or vice-versa, like they're financial investors in either company. Those people are not true movie enthusiasts. Buy a movie because you love it, no matter what it's on.

If you don't have the money for both, then say "I hate [insert format here] because I can't afford to own both and I bought  BluRay for Spiderman but HD-DVD has Transformers".

There's no reason to hate either one, if you love movies buy both Discs and the Samsung Dual Player, you can't lose that way.

25th October 2007 22:30  #19

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
I don't hate HD-DVD but I bought into BD via a PS3 because it seemed technically the better format.

Picture quality doesn't really enter into it as both are virtually identical.

Capacity wise, HD-DVD seems to be suffering slightly (see Transformers) with not having the storage capacity for the higer quality soundtracks because of it's lengthy running time.

Unfortunately, the home video industry has a track record of  the lesser capable format losing in a format war so it's very much still up for grabs.

As for why I'd like to see BD prevail, well you're right. I don't want to have wasted my money on hardware and discs that will end up being redundant. But then again, in 10 years time, isn't that what we will all have on our hands with all the DVD's we've bought over the years.

I'd be happy for HD-DVD to win this so called format war if it would end the indecision over what to buy, but I don't believe it will because it's showing it's limitations already and it's only what, 12-18 months old.

So no. For myself and probably a lot of other people here, it's not as black and white as you make out that we who have HD in whatever form, hate the opposing format. The whole situation is just frustrating as I'd like to start stop spending money on DVD's and move on. At the moment, even having dipped my toe in with BD, I'm still being very restrained with how many titles I buy at the moment. Because this war could swing either way but more importantly, titles are just silly money. £25 for Die Hard 4. Nah. Not worth it. Same for Spidey 3. Beyond the flashy visuals, the film is very average. I can honestky say I'm only looking for Blade Runner, Mad Max 2 and some of the Kubrick collection at the moment.

My point. I haven't a clue. The words just kept on coming.

25th October 2007 23:06  #20

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,115 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
I've been looking at both formats recently, and while BD is undoubtedly technically superior, it's a real mess of a format. For starters, it's not finalised. Most players on the market are profile 1.0, which means they won't work with newer BD-J software when 1.1 becomes mandatory at the end of the month (I'm not even going to think about profile 2.0). You're basically buying an obsolete bit of kit (it's insane the format wasn't standardised before they sold it to people). HD DVD basically has this side of things sorted, it's cheaper and they're giving away seven free titles. BD costs a bomb and you get jack.

I think a lot of the reason BD is winning is because it was the first HD format people heard of. I know it's not the 'official' format, but people were talking about BD years ago and I think that early buzz has helped it nudge ahead. I can't for the life of me see any real reason why it is doing so well at the moment when the competition is cheaper, more technically advanced (for the time being) and gives you free stuff. That's a neutral point of view...

27th October 2007 8:56  #21

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
Interesting points Chris. All valid. The format not being finalised is partially why I've gone PS3 for the moment. At least you can update it easily. I won't be buying a BD player (if I indeed go down that route) for another year or so. So even though I've got BD, I'm still watching and waiting to see what happens.

28th October 2007 14:55  #22

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,115 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
From looking at the available facts, BD's on-paper specs should allow for more impressive content in the future, but right now HD DVD is delivering interactive content on discs with audio-visual quality that easily matches anything on BD. Compression is only going to get better as well, so the extra space on BD becomes even less of an issue.

For me it's all about the films. That's the reason the majority of us are buying into these formats in the first place, not because we're fans of Sony/Toshiba etc. It's just a pity we're being forced to chose sides in a war that none of us wanted.

28th October 2007 16:57  #23

m@tt Member Join Date: October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 551
If HD-DVD and Blu-ray are identical in picture and sound why the need for triple layers or octo layers? If bit rate makes no difference to either format why do people think it's important? How much disc capacity do you need for hi-def? Is what we have enough or is there a higher definition just around the corner? I'll stick with DVDs for now, it's a shame because i was quit interested in hi-def to start with. Bloody format war.

28th October 2007 17:58  #24

Director7 Member Join Date: June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 290
About bit-rate, everyone should read this, it explains alot.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Z...

28th October 2007 19:08  #25

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,115 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
I read that yesterday. Makes some very good points about the stupidity of arguing over which format is 'better'. They can both deliver stunning audio and video.

28th October 2007 20:40  #26

Director7 Member Join Date: June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 290
^^
Thank you. Anytime an argument comes up, I'm copy+pasting that as my end-all quote.

30th October 2007 4:29  #27

Jersey Jedi Member Join Date: August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 714
That article is being shortsighted though. I've said it over and over: as of right now, there's no discernible difference in the two formats. But in the long run, as TV sets get larger and they want to fit more complex features on a single disc, Blu-Ray will have an advantage. They are both incredibly new formats and the standards by which we judge them are different now than what they will be in years to come. Look at the original 'Matrix' DVD; at the time it was hailed as an incredible presentation, but as the format grew and the process was perfected, noticeable improvements were made. I guess we'll just have to see in 8 years how much of a difference in picture and audio we can notice.

30th October 2007 7:23  #28

m@tt Member Join Date: October 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 551
Putting the movies plus extras on a tiny flash drive with no loss of quality and then incerting them directly into the flat screen TVs would be good. You could download the content and move it to any flat screen in the house that had the built in player. Shouldn't take up much space in the TV, you make my words it's going to happen and no need for any HDMI cables either.

30th October 2007 10:37  #29

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,115 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
Compression algorithms are only going to get better, not worse. In the future you won't need as much space to make a film look as good as it does now. It was that way on DVD (the 'problems' with the Matrix image were more to do with the original look of the film than anything else; the redo has totally different colour timing).

Granted BD is technically better on paper, but both formats are still promising discs with more capacity. Where does it end? The biggest problem I can see is that the formats weren't standardised before they started selling them to the public. Say what you want, but making players that can't playback interactive content is just plain stupid and you never had that situation with DVD (apart from the odd cheap player).

31st October 2007 14:32  #30

Disciple Member Join Date: April 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 765
There are rumours going around now saying that Warner is about to abandon their neutality and go for one format. Warner has the biggest library of films of all studios. This is really gonna effect which format is going to "win". If you look back at what they've released in HD so far you could argue that they favour HD DVD as they've released a lot of films with HD DVD exlusive special features such as the In Movie Experience PIPs. However, as New Line Cinema (which if i'm not totally off track here, is owned by Warner) keep releasing their films exclusively on Blu-Ray for the period during which the film is still playing in international territories, this could swing either way. This could definitely be decided real soon though.


Also: Kmart is no longer selling Blu-Ray players, only Toshiba HD DVD players.
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