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BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD

Forums - Discs & Movies - BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD 

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He He!  Happy
You should be too busy hanging on for dear life down under as you're all upside down. I'm just impressed that you can type while doing that as wellHappy
You would think I had also something better to do maybe at 01:40 in the morning here in Australia!
I was talking about my paying job, which isn't DVDActive Wink I was actually dreaming of a world without posters like Scottland!
Chris Gould wrote: Aye, I guess the 200GB discs could have other applications (although 200GB wouldn't backup our server), but there could well be compatibility issues with triple/quad layer discs and older standalone players. Then again they might all work superbly and we could have everything (extras included) in HD HappyGawd - Many informative websites would really have quite large databases - scary how big some are. I spose DVDActive would easily be hitting over a TB by now?
Players being built now would have to more than likely have their lasers changed as each layer relies on a particular focal point made by the laser hardware to read the data so more expense (if you get what I mean) but of course in theory by then when the 3 and 4 layer discs become mainstream then the players should be a hell of a lot cheaper...
I see by your last sentence you must be dreaming of world peace again Wink
Aye, I guess the 200GB discs could have other applications (although 200GB wouldn't backup our server), but there could well be compatibility issues with triple/quad layer discs and older standalone players. Then again they might all work superbly and we could have everything (extras included) in HD Happy
Actually if you put it that way, what you are saying Chris has merit - there is a chance they may not go ahead but just think of a 200GB disc that can do a backup of the companies server easily - just another application of it.
After all, they have already done the research....
Will they even bother if one format dies out? Smacks of a 'my cock is bigger than yours' war of words to me.
Wait till they start adding more layers to the discs....
Nope, totally different thing. The profiles are hardware standards.
i purchased a sony blu-ray bdps1...and they have constantly sent me firmware updates.  i believe i'm on update 3.60.  i've had the option to download them and burn them on my pc or have actual discs mailed to me (which is the means i've chosen).  i don't know if the firmware will suffice with what some of you have been talking about profile 1 vs. 1.1 or 2.0...any help is appreciated.
I love the way that Sony come up with Bluray and then kind of forget to tell everyone else about the changes that are going to be made, meaning that the PS3 - surprise surprise, another Sony product - is the only machine that can be upgraded to play the new discs when they come out, leaving everyone who brought an early Bluray player screwed

I BLOODY HATE SONY! - ROBBING BA....RDS!!!
I have found black could be blacker on my Toshiba LCD but I kind of thought it was more down to the TV than the PS3. The Tosh isn't very tolerant of off angle viewing I find. Left or right, and it goes a tad milky. The same if you're stood up (higher than normal sitting position).

Relatively speaking though, in normal viewing position I'm really pleased with it. The best looking discs for me have been Casino Royale, Pirates, Blade Runner and Ocean's 11,12,13. The worst offender for blacks being milky and washed out was the title that should be damn perfect and that was Superman Returns.

Anyhoo, thanks both for the feedback on the other players.
Apparently the BD-P1400 is better in the image stakes as well. From what someone told me today, it seems the PS3 fails blacker-than-black as well, which is shocking. I'd only really consider it as a one-stop shop media centre, games machine and future-proof way of watching Bonus View and BD Live features, never as a main player.
PS3 does lack in the visual department compare to new players like Panasonic BD30 for instance. From my testing, BD30 is a clear winner in the visual department, sharper and less noise. I'm using PS3 myself at the moment, I must say I'm a little disappointed with PS3 as a BD Player, however because I play PS games so the BD side of it was really more of a bonus, that's why I'm looking to change as soon as the BD50 comes out...
I partially agree with what Chris said with regard to having HD picture and HD sound but I'd have to disagree with him on it on an 'all or nothing' basis.

Not having the capability (via hardware) to reproduce the HD sound formats isn't a reason (for me) not to get into HD if for instance, I can only just afford a player (a PS3 in my case) and an HDTV.

The sound upgrade can come later on and it's not as if DD or DTS is inadequate along side the HD picture.

I would agree that it's largely pointless getting an HD Ready TV (over 32"Wink that isn't also 1080p. That for me is 'all or nothing' in that regard. Why spend money on a TV that can't deliver 100% of what's being output from the discs.

Back to the sound, strangely, I've listened to the PCM tracks (2 channel omly) on discs like POTC and found it to be quite immersive, given that the rears are always active, in a way that the 5.1 isn't in some ways.

Having said all that, I do take on board what Chris said about the PS3 being lacking as a player to completely review BD titles at this point in time. Until receivers with HDMI inputs start becoming more commonplace and affordable, it is.

However, (and no disprespect to Chris responding) my initial query over the PS3's lackings were to BoiBoi who seemed to suggest that it was lacking in the visual department rather than sound.
Chris Gould wrote: It has no means of outputting multi-channel audio aside from HDMI, which means you need to buy a new amplifier to enjoy PCM, DD+, TrueHD, DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA. Most standalone decks have discrete analogue outputs and can internally decode most of those formats to passed as LPCM.

That's the only reason I dismissed it as a player. Wouldn't bother me so much if it was just for personal use, but it is quite limited when it comes to reviewing. Also, not much point having an HD viewing experience and an SD audio one.


I like what you said in that last sentence. Well said. Either go all the way or don't bother. You can't have system that does only half the job. I'll probably upgrade with a new BD player and amplifier at towards the end of the year, when I have more money.
Can someone draw a distinction between downloads and on demand and why downloads are the future as opposed to on demand which we have already.

And, if you assume most film colectors have say 400 DVD and up, how much storage capacity would you need to do away with physical disc media altogether. Ignoring the fact that most collectors like a physical disc and packaging rather than a download on a hard drive.

I still believe that there is a difference, not better or worse, between film enthusiasts and computer geeks (sorry, couldn't think of a better word) and that it's only your computer savvy person who's advocating downloads as the future as they love their hard drive more than the ability to go to a physical collection o films and select something, watch it and return it to that collection without any fuss.
You're talking years and years before that happens.
Doesn't matter HD or BluRay, the future of DVD will die.  Everything is/will be available online.
They do at the moment. They just have the option to switch if they so desire.
Oh yeah, Paramount and Universal but neither do it exclusively...
And Universal I think.
The only one backing HD-DVD is Paramount now, correct?
Ahh. I see.

From the sound point of view, yes I'd like to be able to listen to the higher resolution sound formats but it's a cost thing at the moment and, like the picture quality increse (with HD from DVD), the extra oomph soundwise that comes with BD/HDDVD is not the leap that ocurred with DVD from VHS. I'm happy with DD and DTS for now, but then I've not heard a true sound demo of the HD formats so I don't know what I'm missing.

Generally, I think it'll be about 12 months or so before I buy a stand alone BD player. Hopefully, they'll get down to the £250-300 mark in that time, be fully finalised (profile wise) and operationally quicker (load times) than the players currently out there.
It has no means of outputting multi-channel audio aside from HDMI, which means you need to buy a new amplifier to enjoy PCM, DD+, TrueHD, DTS-HD HR and DTS-HD MA. Most standalone decks have discrete analogue outputs and can internally decode most of those formats to passed as LPCM.

That's the only reason I dismissed it as a player. Wouldn't bother me so much if it was just for personal use, but it is quite limited when it comes to reviewing. Also, not much point having an HD viewing experience and an SD audio one.
BoBoi wrote: Mark Lim wrote: With the way things are going, I think Paramount are going to shoot themselves for switching, because in the end they will have to switch back to Blu Ray. I know BLU RAY'S GONNA WIN! WOO-HOO!

Can't wait to get my first Blu Ray Player this year, right after I pay off my credit card. Of course I have to save some money first. I already have a Sony Bravia with Sony HDMI imput, so need to upgrade my projector.

Good thing Mark, I also own a Sony Bravia (X200) too. I am looking at getting a new BD Player as well, since I think PS3 doesn't really deliver, picture quality wise standalone player is much better. So I'm looking at the new Panasonic DMP-BD50, incidently I almost buy the BD30, but decided to wait for a bit for the news from CES2008 and well BD50 really sounds fantastic...


Honest query. What's wrong with the PS3's audio/visual capabilities when compared against a stand alone player. I can see that a stand alone player should be better than a games machine at playing BD films, but that won't be until at least 3rd or 4th generation players come to market, profile 1.1/2.0 (or whatever version) compliant and all.

As far as I understand it, the PS3 is the most capabale BD movie player available right now. It's firmware can be easily upgraded and to my eyes and ears it presents HD content perfectly well.
With the recent Warners decision and the rumblings that Paramount and Universal have 'get out' clauses from their HD-DVD deals, it looks like this thing may finally be over sooner rather than later.  I certainly feel justified in treating my brat that was given a PS3 at Christmas, to his first Blu-ray title to play on it now...  Happy
Mark Lim wrote: With the way things are going, I think Paramount are going to shoot themselves for switching, because in the end they will have to switch back to Blu Ray. I know BLU RAY'S GONNA WIN! WOO-HOO!

Can't wait to get my first Blu Ray Player this year, right after I pay off my credit card. Of course I have to save some money first. I already have a Sony Bravia with Sony HDMI imput, so need to upgrade my projector.

Good thing Mark, I also own a Sony Bravia (X200) too. I am looking at getting a new BD Player as well, since I think PS3 doesn't really deliver, picture quality wise standalone player is much better. So I'm looking at the new Panasonic DMP-BD50, incidently I almost buy the BD30, but decided to wait for a bit for the news from CES2008 and well BD50 really sounds fantastic...
With the way things are going, I think Paramount are going to shoot themselves for switching, because in the end they will have to switch back to Blu Ray. I know BLU RAY'S GONNA WIN! WOO-HOO!

Can't wait to get my first Blu Ray Player this year, right after I pay off my credit card. Of course I have to save some money first. I already have a Sony Bravia with Sony HDMI imput, so need to upgrade my projector.
Director7 wrote: Yea, I read that...

It's not over still, Toshiba needs to play their cards now, and play them damn good.


In poker, it's call "folding"
Yea, I read that...

It's not over still, Toshiba needs to play their cards now, and play them damn good.
This whole situation is dreadful, we'll be updating home cinema equipment as fast as mobile phones next. We'll need a new HD player, firmware update, HDMI cable and plasma TV every six months. Can't remember the last time i needed to update the innards of my DVD player, oh wait a minute i never have.

Just goes to show how much this HD format needs to grow up when it's success or failure depends on two games machines.
yor
region free
Hi Chris
Iam tempted to buy the Toshiba HD XE1, However a UK company is selling a USA Toshiba HD XA2 player for £500,
This will allow me to also play my Region 1 dvds,
How do the two player compare?
Also will it be ok with my current equipment?

Any advise would be appreciated
region free
yor wrote: Ive just got the new Sony S500 Blu ray player, with a Sony 40 inch X series TV and a Sony  3300 ES AV reciever, + The new KEF ES 3500 Speakers, I was in Chicago last week and was looking for the new Samsung Duel, HD ,BLU RAY Player, to solve the region problem , But its not out until the new year,

"Pick a side, we're at war!"..... Colbert is God
Nope, but at least it will be profile 1.1, which is a big plus. If I could have waited I would probably have gone for one of those, but we needed to kick off our HD coverage sooner rather than later. Couldn't wait months for vapourware.
yor
region free
Ive just got the new Sony S500 Blu ray player, with a Sony 40 inch X series TV and a Sony  3300 ES AV reciever, + The new KEF ES 3500 Speakers, I was in Chicago last week and was looking for the new Samsung Duel, HD ,BLU RAY Player, to solve the region problem , But its not out until the new year,
I have three players in the living room: the Oppo HD981 for SD DVDs, the Toshiba HD-EP35 for HD DVD and the Samsung BD-P1400 for BD. PitA, but necessary.
yor
Thanks Chris , Ive loads of Region 1 dvd,s So its a no go, At least HD is region free , Cheers
Not for DVDs, but HD DVD is region free anyway. There might be an unofficial firmware at some point in the future though, as this has happened for other models.
yor
Can anyone tell me if the new Toshiba HD XE1 is multi region ?
Disciple wrote: There are rumours going around now saying that Warner is about to abandon their neutality and go for one format. Warner has the biggest library of films of all studios. This is really gonna effect which format is going to "win". If you look back at what they've released in HD so far you could argue that they favour HD DVD as they've released a lot of films with HD DVD exlusive special features such as the In Movie Experience PIPs. However, as New Line Cinema (which if i'm not totally off track here, is owned by Warner) keep releasing their films exclusively on Blu-Ray for the period during which the film is still playing in international territories, this could swing either way. This could definitely be decided real soon though.


Also: Kmart is no longer selling Blu-Ray players, only Toshiba HD DVD players.


If it helps stoke the fires I've been to my fare share of WB events and press previews and there is NEVER any Blu Ray media around. Always HD DVD and always being presented on Toshiba HD DVD Players.
Disciple wrote: If you look back at what they've released in HD so far you could argue that they favour HD DVD as they've released a lot of films with HD DVD exlusive special features such as the In Movie Experience PIPs.
*********

Isn't that because (up until now with the 1.1 BD players & discs) BluRay couldn't have those features?
Here is a very good article on the current state of things...
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/the-state-of-hd-dvd/...  Sad
I don't get the attraction of downloading films. Any time away from a PC trying to get it to work is time well spent in my book. Plus having hundreds of films on one drive, that could breakdown would be a nightmare. HAve a back up on disc then I hear people say. Well isn't that what DVD/BD/HDD is anyway. I much prefer the physical medium of a disc. You know where it is and it's hardly a bind getting off your arse and putting a disc in a player is it. The only plus side to having all your films on one hard rive is the space it saves in the real world.

I use a hard drive for recording TV and converting MiniDV to DVD but I would never trust it to safeguard any important video media. It's a real bonus to have a hard drive but eventually you need to clean it up and put to disc the things you want to keep. Which brings us back to actually needing some sort of independant physical storage. That will change over time of course. I would think Discs will eventually disappear and be as quaint as VHS is now for some people.

I would look forward to a time when you could buy you movies on something like a credit card with all the data on the chip, and all you need to play it on is a reader with a RAID array at home. To view the card it would need to download onto the RAID but that would only take seconds. You'd then be free to either keep it on the hard drive or delete it safe in the knowledge that you had the file safe in some sort of credit card style wallet.

And the sky would be pink. And Coke/Pepsi would come out of taps. And cars would fly. Mr Kipling mince pies might actually be less dry than Morrisons own. And everyone would have their own robot (for the ironing, dishes and hand jobs etc). And there'd be no war.....
Yes terrabyte  HDDs that don't wipe the entire movie archive by breaking down which i don't see either.
I'm curious as to why he prefers the BD version. It wouldn't have the interactive features of the HD DVD release, and even if if did no one could play them. Sure it might have a lossless audio track, but Dolby's own engineers have stated that the Plus track is audibly transparent from the studio master. I'm pretty sure he's not actually basing his comments on anything that would benefit consumers. Downloads won't become the preferred format for HD content until uber-fast broadband with no caps are the norm (so never then) and people can buy terrabyte HDDs for next to nothing.
Michael 'Transformers' Bay has gone on record as saying he prefers the Blu-ray of that movie, as opposed to the HD-DVD version...and that he reckons that Microsoft's 'bribery' of the likes of Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive is a ploy to muddy the waters of either format taking off, so that 'DOWNLOADS' become the preferred format, sooner rather than later...
I've decided that I DONE CARE which Hi-def format wins, just that one with EVERY studio onboard does, and that it is NOT (probably extras-free) 'downloads'!
Damn you Michael...er, I mean Microsoft...
No one said HD DVD was superior, it's not. BD is technically superior on paper, but that superiority is not translating into real-world performance. However, it is still the dominant format for reasons that elude me. Why people would buy into a format that's not standardised, requires you to buy new hardware and still enforces region coding is beyond me.
From what I read here I think I am still going to wait it out. I was going to buy (and probably still will) a PS3 as it doubles as a games console as well as a BR player. As has been mentioned here, the picture quality is comparable, but you get better deals with HD at the moment in terms of free movie whereas BR are giving nothing away. It was mentioned that technically HD is slightly better but again the differences seem minimal.

It was mentioned about double dipping films and that people should buy both formats if they are a fan, why would you want to spend out twice on a movie? Whilst there are a few people that would want every version / cover etc most people want to buy one copy of the film and only double dip if there is a noticeable improvement on the re-issue (Bladerunner for example).

But this BD-J, I have not heard of this but if most players cannot accept it then it seems pointless going for the BR format at the moment, in fact it all seems a massive mess which is why I am leaving it be. At the end of the day, if people wanted one format one way to force the studios hand is for no-one to buy either format (disk wise). At the moment why both formats are selling no one is seeing any advantage into changing the way they do things.
Disciple wrote: New Line Cinema keep releasing their films exclusively on Blu-Ray for the period during which the film is still playing in international territoriesBut that exclusivity is only for a couple months. Everything New Line announced for BluRay they also said the HD version would follow, just at a later time.

If Warner picked BluRay, HD-DVD would stand no chance and falter only a little while later, Paramount just isn't enough. But if Warner picked HD-DVD then it still wouldn't be over for BluRay seeing as how big FOX and Disney & Sony Pictures are.

UMD has BEEN done, and Sony still releases movies on that dead format even though almost no-one supports/buys it. Don't you think they'll do the same here? Of course they will. I doubt if Blu Ray will ever go away completely.
There are rumours going around now saying that Warner is about to abandon their neutality and go for one format. Warner has the biggest library of films of all studios. This is really gonna effect which format is going to "win". If you look back at what they've released in HD so far you could argue that they favour HD DVD as they've released a lot of films with HD DVD exlusive special features such as the In Movie Experience PIPs. However, as New Line Cinema (which if i'm not totally off track here, is owned by Warner) keep releasing their films exclusively on Blu-Ray for the period during which the film is still playing in international territories, this could swing either way. This could definitely be decided real soon though.


Also: Kmart is no longer selling Blu-Ray players, only Toshiba HD DVD players.
Compression algorithms are only going to get better, not worse. In the future you won't need as much space to make a film look as good as it does now. It was that way on DVD (the 'problems' with the Matrix image were more to do with the original look of the film than anything else; the redo has totally different colour timing).

Granted BD is technically better on paper, but both formats are still promising discs with more capacity. Where does it end? The biggest problem I can see is that the formats weren't standardised before they started selling them to the public. Say what you want, but making players that can't playback interactive content is just plain stupid and you never had that situation with DVD (apart from the odd cheap player).
Putting the movies plus extras on a tiny flash drive with no loss of quality and then incerting them directly into the flat screen TVs would be good. You could download the content and move it to any flat screen in the house that had the built in player. Shouldn't take up much space in the TV, you make my words it's going to happen and no need for any HDMI cables either.
That article is being shortsighted though. I've said it over and over: as of right now, there's no discernible difference in the two formats. But in the long run, as TV sets get larger and they want to fit more complex features on a single disc, Blu-Ray will have an advantage. They are both incredibly new formats and the standards by which we judge them are different now than what they will be in years to come. Look at the original 'Matrix' DVD; at the time it was hailed as an incredible presentation, but as the format grew and the process was perfected, noticeable improvements were made. I guess we'll just have to see in 8 years how much of a difference in picture and audio we can notice.
^^
Thank you. Anytime an argument comes up, I'm copy+pasting that as my end-all quote.
I read that yesterday. Makes some very good points about the stupidity of arguing over which format is 'better'. They can both deliver stunning audio and video.
About bit-rate, everyone should read this, it explains alot.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Z...
If HD-DVD and Blu-ray are identical in picture and sound why the need for triple layers or octo layers? If bit rate makes no difference to either format why do people think it's important? How much disc capacity do you need for hi-def? Is what we have enough or is there a higher definition just around the corner? I'll stick with DVDs for now, it's a shame because i was quit interested in hi-def to start with. Bloody format war.
From looking at the available facts, BD's on-paper specs should allow for more impressive content in the future, but right now HD DVD is delivering interactive content on discs with audio-visual quality that easily matches anything on BD. Compression is only going to get better as well, so the extra space on BD becomes even less of an issue.

For me it's all about the films. That's the reason the majority of us are buying into these formats in the first place, not because we're fans of Sony/Toshiba etc. It's just a pity we're being forced to chose sides in a war that none of us wanted.
Interesting points Chris. All valid. The format not being finalised is partially why I've gone PS3 for the moment. At least you can update it easily. I won't be buying a BD player (if I indeed go down that route) for another year or so. So even though I've got BD, I'm still watching and waiting to see what happens.
I've been looking at both formats recently, and while BD is undoubtedly technically superior, it's a real mess of a format. For starters, it's not finalised. Most players on the market are profile 1.0, which means they won't work with newer BD-J software when 1.1 becomes mandatory at the end of the month (I'm not even going to think about profile 2.0). You're basically buying an obsolete bit of kit (it's insane the format wasn't standardised before they sold it to people). HD DVD basically has this side of things sorted, it's cheaper and they're giving away seven free titles. BD costs a bomb and you get jack.

I think a lot of the reason BD is winning is because it was the first HD format people heard of. I know it's not the 'official' format, but people were talking about BD years ago and I think that early buzz has helped it nudge ahead. I can't for the life of me see any real reason why it is doing so well at the moment when the competition is cheaper, more technically advanced (for the time being) and gives you free stuff. That's a neutral point of view...
I don't hate HD-DVD but I bought into BD via a PS3 because it seemed technically the better format.

Picture quality doesn't really enter into it as both are virtually identical.

Capacity wise, HD-DVD seems to be suffering slightly (see Transformers) with not having the storage capacity for the higer quality soundtracks because of it's lengthy running time.

Unfortunately, the home video industry has a track record of  the lesser capable format losing in a format war so it's very much still up for grabs.

As for why I'd like to see BD prevail, well you're right. I don't want to have wasted my money on hardware and discs that will end up being redundant. But then again, in 10 years time, isn't that what we will all have on our hands with all the DVD's we've bought over the years.

I'd be happy for HD-DVD to win this so called format war if it would end the indecision over what to buy, but I don't believe it will because it's showing it's limitations already and it's only what, 12-18 months old.

So no. For myself and probably a lot of other people here, it's not as black and white as you make out that we who have HD in whatever form, hate the opposing format. The whole situation is just frustrating as I'd like to start stop spending money on DVD's and move on. At the moment, even having dipped my toe in with BD, I'm still being very restrained with how many titles I buy at the moment. Because this war could swing either way but more importantly, titles are just silly money. £25 for Die Hard 4. Nah. Not worth it. Same for Spidey 3. Beyond the flashy visuals, the film is very average. I can honestky say I'm only looking for Blade Runner, Mad Max 2 and some of the Kubrick collection at the moment.

My point. I haven't a clue. The words just kept on coming.
What I never liked was fanboys. People follow these "wars" like it truly matters who wins, sure it's human nature to pick a side, but why do people REALLY care?

People say "I'm not buying HD-DVD, I love Blu-Ray" or vice-versa, like they're financial investors in either company. Those people are not true movie enthusiasts. Buy a movie because you love it, no matter what it's on.

If you don't have the money for both, then say "I hate [insert format here] because I can't afford to own both and I bought  BluRay for Spiderman but HD-DVD has Transformers".

There's no reason to hate either one, if you love movies buy both Discs and the Samsung Dual Player, you can't lose that way.
DON'T CARE! DON'T CARE! DON'T CARE!!!!!!

As long as movies continue to be released on dvd I'm not touching either of the new formats with a barge pole!!!
Mad (not particularly thought through) idea for Sony.

Start releasing titles on HD-DVD. It'll freak out Toshiba and Microsoft no end.

Think how many units of Siderman, Casino Royale and Click you'll shift. Okay, perhaps not Click but it would be worth it to see all the industry types try to make sense of it.
Matt wrote: Jersey Jedi wrote: And the fact is that in the long run, Blu-Ray will definitely have superior quality simply because of the larger storage capacity. The more room you have on the disc, the high bit rate wil be available. very simple.A bit more important than the disc space is the transfer rate of each format, which is about 36 Mbps for HD DVD and 54 for Blu-ray. As a comparison standard DVD has a transfer rate of about 11 Mbps, so HD DVD has 3x the transfer rate of standard DVD and Blu-ray has 5x the transfer rate of standard DVDs.

Damn, I knew I left an important technological detail out. You ever get that, when you type a ton and then just forget half your points? Good call though Matt.
Jersey Jedi wrote: And the fact is that in the long run, Blu-Ray will definitely have superior quality simply because of the larger storage capacity. The more room you have on the disc, the high bit rate wil be available. very simple.A bit more important than the disc space is the transfer rate of each format, which is about 36 Mbps for HD DVD and 54 for Blu-ray. As a comparison standard DVD has a transfer rate of about 11 Mbps, so HD DVD has 3x the transfer rate of standard DVD and Blu-ray has 5x the transfer rate of standard DVDs.
I really can't get be hind the logic that hardware sales determine the 'winner' in this war. Yeah, I understand the logic that buying the player means that you are more invested in the format and probably would buy more software in the long run. But that's no guarantee. And the only stakeholders who are affected by hardware sales are the manufactures. What matters right now are how the studios benefit from the format. So in that regard, software is definitely paramount (no pun intended).

As for the argument that PS3s are somehow not as worthy as standalone players (yet somehow the HD-DVD add on for XBox 360 is), that's just splitting hairs. I know plenty of people who purchased a PS3 specifically because of the BD capabilities. And if Playstation 3 software sales are any indication, it's safe to assume that a significant percentage of owners don't really use it as a gaming platform anyway.

Personally, I see all of these major players in the hardware segment of the market all supporting Blu-Ray (Samsung, Panasonic, and LG, in addition to Sony) while only Toshiba has support for their format, as an indication that Blu-Ray is, at least from a technological standpoint, a superior format. As of right now, yes, HD-DVD definitely has the advantage in interactive special features. But with the implementation of BD-J, that advantage is going to be a moot point very soon.

And regarding the visual and audio quality of HD-DVD being somehow superior to Blu-Ray, that simply is an unjustified claim. While HD-DVD again had superior picture when it was first introduced, at this point, if you look at the massive amount of reviews out there, or even judge by yourself, there really is no noticeable difference in quality. And the fact is that in the long run, Blu-Ray will definitely have superior quality simply because of the larger storage capacity. The more room you have on the disc, the high bit rate wil be available. very simple. It's most likely that within a year they'll be implementing a quad-layer BD that has a 100GB capacity. And in the future, it has the capacity for a octo-layer disc for 200GB, and a firmware upgrade is all Blu-Ray players need to be compatible.

Really, at this point, I just want one format (ANY format) to be chosen and used by all the studios, so I can invest and know that my investment is protected in the long run. I am of the opinion that HD-DVD is just a stop gap technology, and the Blu-Ray is a further evolution from DVD. But really, I just want an HD format on disc before downloads become the standard.
I thought of a combo player but I will waite on that as well.  I am afraid that it will break down. I guess in 2 years it will have something
BoBoi wrote: I do very much believe that both will co-exist, at least until the next formats come along. Both camps put in too much money to completely diminish their formatWell said, and probably true. Nobody just gives up after that much money invested.


BoBoi wrote: The way is to simply get a combo playerThat's what my friend did. But the combo technology is so new, that I'm wary of committing $1,000 to it, even though his works fine.
Don't think either format is going to win. Neither one offers a substantial value over standard DVD. They're both going to either fail completely, or more likely remain a niche product like LaserDisc was.

That said, I have an xbox 360 and a new HDTV so I traded some old stuff into an EB Games and got a free HD DVD addon. Although, if I wasnt able to get rid of stuff I didnt want anyways, I wouldnt have one. I still havent gotten a movie for it yet, just King Kong that came with it.

If I were to actually buy a stand alone player now, it would have to be a fully working combo player and it would have to cost $200 or less. Until that happens, I don't think either format is going to take off.
I meant who might win.  I just got a hd tv so I was thinking of upgrading the dvd player.
The way is to simply get a combo player, as mentioned above. It is really the only way togo. But it's hard to guess which way it's going to go and you cannot really future proof anything now.
What are we going to do when they release the 3 and 4 layer discs and then we all have to upgrade the players anyway?
i'm waiting for the winer to...and relay hope that it will be HD DVD - i prefer the look of the box for start..and as BoBoi posted, bether quality.
On the other hand BoBoi, consumers DO actually benefit from this as players are becoming cheaper and cheaper a lot faster than they would have if it was just the one format. There's a $199 HD DVD player released for Christmas.

I also have both HD DVD and Blu-Ray and I have to agree with you BoBoi, I would always go for the HD DVD version if it's released on both formats. As a big fan of movies, i live for the extras and HD DVD is the clear winner in this field.
To me, HD DVD has a slight edge in the quality themselves, especially in the extras department - early tackled on Web-Anabled Features and High-Def Exclusive Extras. If the same movie is release in both formats, I chose HD DVD always, and that mostly are Warner releases. However, the Combo releases, I don't like them at all. I also own a fair share of Blu-Ray releases as well - some releaes are absolutely brilliant like 'The Prestige' for instance.

I'm not saying that it's generally 'must be' better, it's just a matter of taste really...

Although I see no clear winner for this so called 'Format War', and I do very much believe that both will co-exist, at least until the next formats come along. Both camps put in too much money to completely diminish their format.

So perhaps, your best alternative is to either buy both formats or look for a Combo Players - it's the only way you would have the complete collection of movies on high-definition in respect of all distributors.

To be honest, I think this 'Format War' is absolutely ridiculous - and as Chris has stated above, the consumers are not benefiting from this split - most are unsure of what to go for and thus, the point of having a high-def format is that so people would mostly benefit from them and enjoy high standards of film experience at home - not to get drag into this whole mess as well...
BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD
stanton heck wrote: I am thinking about upgrading but notUntil there is a clear winner in the latest format war.  ANy idea who is might win?

Not the consumer, that's for sure.
Who says BluRay has a decent lead? They lead in disc sales, but that's mainly because of PS3.

Hardware sales are what matter, and Toshiba is leading, BY FAR, in that category.

Buying a standalone player is a huge statement in devotion to a format. Buying a Gaming Platform (PS3) and saying "well I also have a BluRay player" does not show intent to support BluRay, it's intent to support PS3 and having a bonus feature.

I'm not for either format, I'm for HD Movies, so I bought both stand alone players, and about 60 movies in each format, so no-one say I'm anti-BluRay.

I just hate the common misconception that BluRay is somehow "leading". Everyone can put a market spin on the word "leading" and not specify in just what they lead in.

Last I read, HD-DVD and BluRay were BOTH "losing" seeing as how they only make up 4% or so in overall DVD-Disc sales. And both companies have poured tons of money into hoping success, but neither have made a return.


******To answer your question, you have ONLY 2 options******

1. Wait YEARS, yes years before there is a CLEAR winner and miss out on Hd glory

2. Buy now and enjoy HD movies, even if you own the losing format in 2-3 years, that's about when you re-buy DVD-Player hardware anyway (if your techy)...

...and as for owning losing format movies? People double dip for new releases all the time (ask anyone at DVDActive,) re-buying a movie in a couple years or less isnt all that bad.

P.S. - This is not directed to you Jersey, just a venting process.
Check DVDFile.com's editorials. They're roughly on a weekly basis and they're the most unbiased and well informed articles on the format war.

But for right now Blu-Ray has a pretty decent lead in america and a much larger one overseas, but it can still go either way and probably wont end for a while.
BLUE-Ray VS HD-DVD
I am thinking about upgrading but notUntil there is a clear winner in the latest format war.  ANy idea who is might win?