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DVD Piracy

Forums - Discs & Movies - DVD Piracy 

1st August 2005 19:24  #31

Tony DeFrancisco Senior Member Join Date: July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,652
That is what the box office slump is about. People are bootlegging movies and downloading them. I mean, backing up movies are fine, but at least people are watching films. (I was actually surprised to see the movie The Island bombed!).

7th August 2005 5:04  #32

Keith Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 221
bullcrap
Thats what they want you to believe.  Its hollywood making hype.  There is no slump.  Movies still make billions and billions, but its never enough for them.  There are still a huge amount of people who never go to the movies or by DVD or VHS.  They wait for them to come on TV.  When will the day come when they yank your TV out of your house?

7th August 2005 6:26  #33

- - Senior Member Join Date: March 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 594
Quote: Originally posted by Keith Gump
Thats what they want you to believe.  Its hollywood making hype.  There is no slump.  Movies still make billions and billions, but its never enough for them.


Only one in ten films ever retrieves its investment from domestic exhibition.  Four out of ten movies never recoup the original investment.  Average film cost $55 million to produce with an extra $27 million to advertise and market, a total cost of over $80 million per film.  
  Buying pirate DVD means that you're not investing in Hollywood.  Profits are not going back to the official rights owners.  How can you expects movie tickets and DVD price go down if there's no profit going back at them?
  As far as paying actors less $, Actors are under the labor union SAG (The Screen Actors Guild).  SAG negotiates and enforces collective bargaining agreements that establish equitable levels of compensation, benefits and working conditions for performers.  It's like hockey players.  Why are some players being paid more than others?  Because they have more talent.

7th August 2005 15:52  #34

Jonny "Me You" Senior Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,863
Quote: Originally posted by Keith Gump
Thats what they want you to believe.  Its hollywood making hype.  There is no slump.  Movies still make billions and billions, but its never enough for them.  There are still a huge amount of people who never go to the movies or by DVD or VHS.  They wait for them to come on TV.  When will the day come when they yank your TV out of your house?


Agreed 110%

Any so-called slump which means they didnt do as well as the year before, is a result of shit movies coming out over and over again. Most of those that are pirated people wouldnt have paid to see anyways. The loss is virtual and never really existed.

If this is supposedly the first time since 1985 Hollywood hasnt made MORE then the year before, they aren't hurting at all.

Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
 Why are some players being paid more than others?  Because they have more talent.


Getting paid a lot of money has NOTHING to do with talent. Especially in hollywood. Most of todays "actors" can't even act. It's all about personal appeal. Half of the cupcakes I use as sig's couldnt act their way out of a parking ticket, but I find them hot, and in some cases would pay to see them 50 feet tall. Because of this, studios realize that they are a large part to what draws a crowd and pays them an according percentage of the profits.

Comparing it to sports is not really accurate.

Also, most movies make their budgets back. They just don't do it in the domestic theater, they make them back with worldwide rentals or video sales, which produce far larger numbers then in theaters.

7th August 2005 17:23  #35

- - Senior Member Join Date: March 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 594
 Even if "quality" movies would be made while paying actors less $, AND lowering ticket price, it still wouldn't resolve DVD piracy.  The movie industries loses up to $3 billion in the US through DVD piracy. Film fans are attracted by the low prices and the fact that movies are available so early.
  One real-world example of piracy’s devastating impact on the legitimate marketplace is with the 1999 release of the film Star Wars: Episode 1 (The Phantom Menace). Pirate copies of the film (created by using camcorders in US theaters) flooded the Asian marketplace while the film was still in U.S. theatrical distribution. When the film opened legitimately in Asian theaters, attendance was far below expectations. In addition, home entertainment retailers lost vital business in the home video window due to the availability of pirated copies. In this case, piracy affected legitimate theatrical distributors, exhibitors and local businesses.

7th August 2005 18:20  #36

Keith Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 221
Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
The movie industries loses up to $3 billion in the US through DVD piracy. Film fans are attracted by the low prices and the fact that movies are available so early.
  One real-world example of piracy’s devastating impact on the legitimate marketplace is with the 1999 release of the film Star Wars: Episode 1 (The Phantom Menace). Pirate copies of the film (created by using camcorders in US theaters) flooded the Asian marketplace while the film was still in U.S. theatrical distribution.


Its hype. If they were losing so much money they would go out of business.  Dvd, as VHS did, makes them plenty more money too.  

Lets put this in perspective as in your real world example mentioned.  You say they lose 3 BILLION dollars due to piracy.  Lets say the average movie is $13 US since statistics would be based on when the DVD is first released and on sale.  

That would mean that almost 231 MILLION people did not buy it, or as you say got pirated copies of the movie.  That is close to the population of the entire United States of America, which is at 295,734,134.  I'd better lock my door...I live among thieves!!
Care to reconsider?

7th August 2005 18:26  #37

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,108 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
You can't lose what you never had in the first place. The majority of people that I know who commit 'piracy' would never have bought the discs in the first place. I live in quite a low income area, where people just don't have the money to fork out £20 a pop for discs, and aren't technologically savvy enough to know about the Internet (and if they were, they couldn't afford the access or don't have credit cards). The practice of buying discs from markets and 'blokes down the pub' is rampant around here.

7th August 2005 19:46  #38

- - Senior Member Join Date: March 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 594
 It's not about making or losing $, the bottom line is about RIGHTS.  Doesn't matter if you're a musician recording music, author writting a book or actor making movies, they deserve to be protected.  Piracy is stealing, meaning, copyrighted work is used without permission or payment of royalties to the originator or rights owner.

7th August 2005 22:08  #39

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,108 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
Hold on, your entire argument thus far has been based on how much money the studios are 'losing' because of piracy. You can hardly turn around now and claim that it 'isn't about making or losing $'.

7th August 2005 22:29  #40

- - Senior Member Join Date: March 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 594
 If consumers abuse the market, the economy will eventually fall.  The real battle of piracy isn't about profit, it's about copyrights.  Yes, piracy cause studios to loose $, but it's crucial to protect the artist.

7th August 2005 23:28  #41

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,108 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
People have been copying crap illegally for years, and this isn't the first time we've heard all of these arguments (from both sides). Personally I'm not for people ripping stuff off, but I acknowledge that it exists for a wide variety of reasons. The recent tactics used by certain studios have left a bitter taste in the mouths of many consumers (including me).

I have around 400 legally purchased discs, but lately I'm being forced to sit through patronising adverts telling me how wrong I am to steal from the poor movie studios. Effective targeting Einstein - I bought the fucking disc! Ironically the message wouldn't be on an illegal copy. Same thing happens when I pay good money to go to the cinema, only to be told that I'm under suspicion of being a thief.

You've also completely changed tack with your argument. Which is it - money or the rights of the 'artists' (not that I consider huge corporations to be artists - their aim is to make money)?

8th August 2005 4:05  #42

- - Senior Member Join Date: March 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 594
 For the middle comment, Advertisement should be done in theatres and DVD.  How else are you supposed to promote anti-piracy add?
As far as changing my comments.  I never did.  Piracy is stealing $ and most importantly it's stealing the copyright of the artists.
  But I do agree with you, regardless our opinions, it's a long and lost battle.  Exemple: Kazaa, the world's most downloaded software application and perfectly legal can be used to file-swapped music and movies illegaly.

8th August 2005 14:56  #43

Mal Webmaster Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,290
Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
Advertisement should be done in theatres and DVD.  How else are you supposed to promote anti-piracy add?

Piracy trailers are basically preaching to the converted with a built in political undertone, it's more likely to cause resentment than anything else. A highly subservient individual might enjoy the experience but it will be conceived as patronising by others. It's a delicate balancing act, and I suspect they have got it wrong here.

11th August 2005 3:15  #44

Tony DeFrancisco Senior Member Join Date: July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,652
DVD Piracy is another way that people are saving money. You see many people bootlegging movies, and that is just getting worser by the minute. Soon, we'll be living in a world of bootlegged DVDs. And another thing, prices for purchasing a ticket or outrageous. Many people (like me, unless if they are SUPPOSED to be a big box office film, I go see) wait until they come out on video or DVD. Now, I'm hearing people bringing in cells that have a video camera in them. What's the difference between bringing a tripod and a video camera or a cell phone with one? The similarlities are still the same, sucky picture and audio. But now, they focus more on bootlegging than murders or robberies. You serve about 15 years for bootlegging, and then 5 years for murder. I don't see what's the big deal about DVD piracy.

Now, downloading movies are being a main issue of bootlegging movies. I still see commercials like on Fox DVD's, that say, You wouldn't steal a car, a tv, a purse, a DVD. Whatever you do to download movies, they don't put a stop to it. They have links (like Imesh, which is crap anyway). I see more downloading movies than downloading music.

I remember reading on this thread about backing up DVD's. Backing up DVDs are the same thing as bootlegging movies. But, it's not illegal. If you give it to someone for free, it's legal. It's only illegal if you sell it.

11th August 2005 4:10  #45

Jonny "Me You" Senior Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,863
If the studios want to expose the public to anti-copying messages they should throw them on their TV networks. Everyone is inclined to see those.

I guess the solution is just too simple for them to grasp Tongue

11th August 2005 5:30  #46

floyd dylan Banned Join Date: April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 913
How many of you have downloaded pirated material of recent released or workprint movies?

11th August 2005 13:18  #47

Tony DeFrancisco Senior Member Join Date: July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,652
Quote: Originally posted by Jonny "Me You"
If the studios want to expose the public to anti-copying messages they should throw them on their TV networks.


I agree with you.

11th August 2005 13:19  #48

Tony DeFrancisco Senior Member Join Date: July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,652
Quote: Originally posted by floyd dylan
How many of you have downloaded pirated material of recent released or workprint movies?
I did once to resident evil. The sound, picture, and movie sucked, so I stopped doing it.

11th August 2005 15:36  #49

Mal Webmaster Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,290
Quote: Originally posted by Tony DeFrancisco
I remember reading on this thread about backing up DVD's. Backing up DVDs are the same thing as bootlegging movies. But, it's not illegal. If you give it to someone for free, it's legal. It's only illegal if you sell it.

Unfortunately backing up is considered illegal in many countries, including the UK. We aren't technically allowed to back up anything unless the copyright license says otherwise. So for example, even if you are simply copying a CD to get rid of copy protection systems to make it work on old car CD player, then you are still breaking the law.

11th August 2005 15:41  #50

Jonny "Me You" Senior Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,863
What's this CD object you're talking about. I haven't seen one or bought one in years Wink

11th August 2005 15:48  #51

Mal Webmaster Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,290
Quote: Originally posted by Jonny "Me You"
What's this CD object you're talking about. I haven't seen one or bought one in years Wink

It's a new fangled technology that I think will replace DVD... it already supports video in the form of VideoCD and doesn't have two competing audio formats like DVD. Tongue

20th August 2005 4:02  #52

Keith Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 221
Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
If consumers abuse the market, the economy will eventually fall.  The real battle of piracy isn't about profit, it's about copyrights.  Yes, piracy cause studios to loose $, but it's crucial to protect the artist.


It's clear consumers aren't abusing the market.  If the market was abused they would be closing the doors and having a white sale.  Consider it as kids taking watermelons from the edge of the fields. Lets put this in a real world perspective.

20th August 2005 4:34  #53

Keith Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 221
am I a pirate?
I downloaded Constantine a couple weeks ago or so, before the DVD hit the stores  The quality of the burned download was outstanding.  One of the best I've seen.  I saw the movie in the theater also.  For some reason, I enjoyed it more when I saw the DVD.  When I saw it in the theater this idea popped in my head that this was Ghostbusters reinacted,(the creature trying to come out of the girl) and it lost most of its credibility to me. The movie ticket was bought and paid for, with concessions and all some 50 or so dollars later.
I bought the DVD for about $25 Wednesday.  Grand Total $75 invested to Hollywood.  

Take that to the bank Hollywood!  Would you print this in the good news section?  This is what you get when you make good movies.

Any other real world examples folks?

20th August 2005 12:33  #54

Tony DeFrancisco Senior Member Join Date: July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,652
Just my family (my mom, dad, 4 brothers, 3 sisters, me) are $100 bucks.

20th August 2005 17:06  #55

Tony DeFrancisco Senior Member Join Date: July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,652
Quote: Originally posted by Malcolm Campbell
It's a new fangled technology that I think will replace DVD... it already supports video in the form of VideoCD and doesn't have two competing audio formats like DVD. Tongue
Yesterday, I was in Toys R' Us (my cuz works there), and I saw the box for Kangaroo Jack. They came out with a new mini-disc thing. I never heard of it before.

20th August 2005 18:04  #56

Mark Lim Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 1,211
On the backing up issue, here in Australia, even taping your fave show on tv while you're not at home to watch it is illegal. How is that possible?

20th August 2005 18:30  #57

Keith Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 221
Quote: Originally posted by Mark Lim
On the backing up issue, here in Australia, even taping your fave show on tv while you're not at home to watch it is illegal. How is that possible?


Wow, that is ridiculous.

20th August 2005 18:30  #58

Jonny "Me You" Senior Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,863
Quote: Originally posted by Mark Lim
On the backing up issue, here in Australia, even taping your fave show on tv while you're not at home to watch it is illegal. How is that possible?


That's an easy one to answer. Movie Studios and australian content creator's paid large amounts of money to politicians to make it possible, I'm sure. It happens here all the time.

Just look at the digital millenium copyright act from the US. A pure special interest law.

Fortunately, the Canadian systems are much slower and generally more incompetant, so I think even downloading is still legal here.

20th August 2005 18:46  #59

floyd dylan Banned Join Date: April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 913
Like I said before Hollywood needs to financially cut back, e.g. actors wage, the production cost etc.  

You can make a really good movie at half the cost.

22nd August 2005 2:53  #60

Keith Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United States Posts: 221
i've seen you've said that many times before Floyd.  What do you think it would take to make that happen?
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