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DVD Piracy

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i've seen you've said that many times before Floyd.  What do you think it would take to make that happen?
Like I said before Hollywood needs to financially cut back, e.g. actors wage, the production cost etc.  

You can make a really good movie at half the cost.
Quote: Originally posted by Mark Lim
On the backing up issue, here in Australia, even taping your fave show on tv while you're not at home to watch it is illegal. How is that possible?


That's an easy one to answer. Movie Studios and australian content creator's paid large amounts of money to politicians to make it possible, I'm sure. It happens here all the time.

Just look at the digital millenium copyright act from the US. A pure special interest law.

Fortunately, the Canadian systems are much slower and generally more incompetant, so I think even downloading is still legal here.
Quote: Originally posted by Mark Lim
On the backing up issue, here in Australia, even taping your fave show on tv while you're not at home to watch it is illegal. How is that possible?


Wow, that is ridiculous.
On the backing up issue, here in Australia, even taping your fave show on tv while you're not at home to watch it is illegal. How is that possible?
Quote: Originally posted by Malcolm Campbell
It's a new fangled technology that I think will replace DVD... it already supports video in the form of VideoCD and doesn't have two competing audio formats like DVD. Tongue
Yesterday, I was in Toys R' Us (my cuz works there), and I saw the box for Kangaroo Jack. They came out with a new mini-disc thing. I never heard of it before.
Just my family (my mom, dad, 4 brothers, 3 sisters, me) are $100 bucks.
am I a pirate?
I downloaded Constantine a couple weeks ago or so, before the DVD hit the stores  The quality of the burned download was outstanding.  One of the best I've seen.  I saw the movie in the theater also.  For some reason, I enjoyed it more when I saw the DVD.  When I saw it in the theater this idea popped in my head that this was Ghostbusters reinacted,(the creature trying to come out of the girl) and it lost most of its credibility to me. The movie ticket was bought and paid for, with concessions and all some 50 or so dollars later.
I bought the DVD for about $25 Wednesday.  Grand Total $75 invested to Hollywood.  

Take that to the bank Hollywood!  Would you print this in the good news section?  This is what you get when you make good movies.

Any other real world examples folks?
Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
If consumers abuse the market, the economy will eventually fall.  The real battle of piracy isn't about profit, it's about copyrights.  Yes, piracy cause studios to loose $, but it's crucial to protect the artist.


It's clear consumers aren't abusing the market.  If the market was abused they would be closing the doors and having a white sale.  Consider it as kids taking watermelons from the edge of the fields. Lets put this in a real world perspective.
Mal
Quote: Originally posted by Jonny "Me You"
What's this CD object you're talking about. I haven't seen one or bought one in years Wink

It's a new fangled technology that I think will replace DVD... it already supports video in the form of VideoCD and doesn't have two competing audio formats like DVD. Tongue
What's this CD object you're talking about. I haven't seen one or bought one in years Wink
Mal
Quote: Originally posted by Tony DeFrancisco
I remember reading on this thread about backing up DVD's. Backing up DVDs are the same thing as bootlegging movies. But, it's not illegal. If you give it to someone for free, it's legal. It's only illegal if you sell it.

Unfortunately backing up is considered illegal in many countries, including the UK. We aren't technically allowed to back up anything unless the copyright license says otherwise. So for example, even if you are simply copying a CD to get rid of copy protection systems to make it work on old car CD player, then you are still breaking the law.
Quote: Originally posted by floyd dylan
How many of you have downloaded pirated material of recent released or workprint movies?
I did once to resident evil. The sound, picture, and movie sucked, so I stopped doing it.
Quote: Originally posted by Jonny "Me You"
If the studios want to expose the public to anti-copying messages they should throw them on their TV networks.


I agree with you.
How many of you have downloaded pirated material of recent released or workprint movies?
If the studios want to expose the public to anti-copying messages they should throw them on their TV networks. Everyone is inclined to see those.

I guess the solution is just too simple for them to grasp Tongue
DVD Piracy is another way that people are saving money. You see many people bootlegging movies, and that is just getting worser by the minute. Soon, we'll be living in a world of bootlegged DVDs. And another thing, prices for purchasing a ticket or outrageous. Many people (like me, unless if they are SUPPOSED to be a big box office film, I go see) wait until they come out on video or DVD. Now, I'm hearing people bringing in cells that have a video camera in them. What's the difference between bringing a tripod and a video camera or a cell phone with one? The similarlities are still the same, sucky picture and audio. But now, they focus more on bootlegging than murders or robberies. You serve about 15 years for bootlegging, and then 5 years for murder. I don't see what's the big deal about DVD piracy.

Now, downloading movies are being a main issue of bootlegging movies. I still see commercials like on Fox DVD's, that say, You wouldn't steal a car, a tv, a purse, a DVD. Whatever you do to download movies, they don't put a stop to it. They have links (like Imesh, which is crap anyway). I see more downloading movies than downloading music.

I remember reading on this thread about backing up DVD's. Backing up DVDs are the same thing as bootlegging movies. But, it's not illegal. If you give it to someone for free, it's legal. It's only illegal if you sell it.
Mal
Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
Advertisement should be done in theatres and DVD.  How else are you supposed to promote anti-piracy add?

Piracy trailers are basically preaching to the converted with a built in political undertone, it's more likely to cause resentment than anything else. A highly subservient individual might enjoy the experience but it will be conceived as patronising by others. It's a delicate balancing act, and I suspect they have got it wrong here.
- -
 For the middle comment, Advertisement should be done in theatres and DVD.  How else are you supposed to promote anti-piracy add?
As far as changing my comments.  I never did.  Piracy is stealing $ and most importantly it's stealing the copyright of the artists.
  But I do agree with you, regardless our opinions, it's a long and lost battle.  Exemple: Kazaa, the world's most downloaded software application and perfectly legal can be used to file-swapped music and movies illegaly.
People have been copying crap illegally for years, and this isn't the first time we've heard all of these arguments (from both sides). Personally I'm not for people ripping stuff off, but I acknowledge that it exists for a wide variety of reasons. The recent tactics used by certain studios have left a bitter taste in the mouths of many consumers (including me).

I have around 400 legally purchased discs, but lately I'm being forced to sit through patronising adverts telling me how wrong I am to steal from the poor movie studios. Effective targeting Einstein - I bought the fucking disc! Ironically the message wouldn't be on an illegal copy. Same thing happens when I pay good money to go to the cinema, only to be told that I'm under suspicion of being a thief.

You've also completely changed tack with your argument. Which is it - money or the rights of the 'artists' (not that I consider huge corporations to be artists - their aim is to make money)?
- -
 If consumers abuse the market, the economy will eventually fall.  The real battle of piracy isn't about profit, it's about copyrights.  Yes, piracy cause studios to loose $, but it's crucial to protect the artist.
Hold on, your entire argument thus far has been based on how much money the studios are 'losing' because of piracy. You can hardly turn around now and claim that it 'isn't about making or losing $'.
- -
 It's not about making or losing $, the bottom line is about RIGHTS.  Doesn't matter if you're a musician recording music, author writting a book or actor making movies, they deserve to be protected.  Piracy is stealing, meaning, copyrighted work is used without permission or payment of royalties to the originator or rights owner.
You can't lose what you never had in the first place. The majority of people that I know who commit 'piracy' would never have bought the discs in the first place. I live in quite a low income area, where people just don't have the money to fork out £20 a pop for discs, and aren't technologically savvy enough to know about the Internet (and if they were, they couldn't afford the access or don't have credit cards). The practice of buying discs from markets and 'blokes down the pub' is rampant around here.
Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
The movie industries loses up to $3 billion in the US through DVD piracy. Film fans are attracted by the low prices and the fact that movies are available so early.
  One real-world example of piracy’s devastating impact on the legitimate marketplace is with the 1999 release of the film Star Wars: Episode 1 (The Phantom Menace). Pirate copies of the film (created by using camcorders in US theaters) flooded the Asian marketplace while the film was still in U.S. theatrical distribution.


Its hype. If they were losing so much money they would go out of business.  Dvd, as VHS did, makes them plenty more money too.  

Lets put this in perspective as in your real world example mentioned.  You say they lose 3 BILLION dollars due to piracy.  Lets say the average movie is $13 US since statistics would be based on when the DVD is first released and on sale.  

That would mean that almost 231 MILLION people did not buy it, or as you say got pirated copies of the movie.  That is close to the population of the entire United States of America, which is at 295,734,134.  I'd better lock my door...I live among thieves!!
Care to reconsider?
- -
 Even if "quality" movies would be made while paying actors less $, AND lowering ticket price, it still wouldn't resolve DVD piracy.  The movie industries loses up to $3 billion in the US through DVD piracy. Film fans are attracted by the low prices and the fact that movies are available so early.
  One real-world example of piracy’s devastating impact on the legitimate marketplace is with the 1999 release of the film Star Wars: Episode 1 (The Phantom Menace). Pirate copies of the film (created by using camcorders in US theaters) flooded the Asian marketplace while the film was still in U.S. theatrical distribution. When the film opened legitimately in Asian theaters, attendance was far below expectations. In addition, home entertainment retailers lost vital business in the home video window due to the availability of pirated copies. In this case, piracy affected legitimate theatrical distributors, exhibitors and local businesses.
Quote: Originally posted by Keith Gump
Thats what they want you to believe.  Its hollywood making hype.  There is no slump.  Movies still make billions and billions, but its never enough for them.  There are still a huge amount of people who never go to the movies or by DVD or VHS.  They wait for them to come on TV.  When will the day come when they yank your TV out of your house?


Agreed 110%

Any so-called slump which means they didnt do as well as the year before, is a result of shit movies coming out over and over again. Most of those that are pirated people wouldnt have paid to see anyways. The loss is virtual and never really existed.

If this is supposedly the first time since 1985 Hollywood hasnt made MORE then the year before, they aren't hurting at all.

Quote: Originally posted by Danny Boy
 Why are some players being paid more than others?  Because they have more talent.


Getting paid a lot of money has NOTHING to do with talent. Especially in hollywood. Most of todays "actors" can't even act. It's all about personal appeal. Half of the cupcakes I use as sig's couldnt act their way out of a parking ticket, but I find them hot, and in some cases would pay to see them 50 feet tall. Because of this, studios realize that they are a large part to what draws a crowd and pays them an according percentage of the profits.

Comparing it to sports is not really accurate.

Also, most movies make their budgets back. They just don't do it in the domestic theater, they make them back with worldwide rentals or video sales, which produce far larger numbers then in theaters.
- -
Quote: Originally posted by Keith Gump
Thats what they want you to believe.  Its hollywood making hype.  There is no slump.  Movies still make billions and billions, but its never enough for them.


Only one in ten films ever retrieves its investment from domestic exhibition.  Four out of ten movies never recoup the original investment.  Average film cost $55 million to produce with an extra $27 million to advertise and market, a total cost of over $80 million per film.  
  Buying pirate DVD means that you're not investing in Hollywood.  Profits are not going back to the official rights owners.  How can you expects movie tickets and DVD price go down if there's no profit going back at them?
  As far as paying actors less $, Actors are under the labor union SAG (The Screen Actors Guild).  SAG negotiates and enforces collective bargaining agreements that establish equitable levels of compensation, benefits and working conditions for performers.  It's like hockey players.  Why are some players being paid more than others?  Because they have more talent.
bullcrap
Thats what they want you to believe.  Its hollywood making hype.  There is no slump.  Movies still make billions and billions, but its never enough for them.  There are still a huge amount of people who never go to the movies or by DVD or VHS.  They wait for them to come on TV.  When will the day come when they yank your TV out of your house?
That is what the box office slump is about. People are bootlegging movies and downloading them. I mean, backing up movies are fine, but at least people are watching films. (I was actually surprised to see the movie The Island bombed!).
i think it is ridiculous that a person who pirates dvds can get more time in jail than a person who drives drunk and kills someone. The drunk driver has an easier time of getting a more reduced or less sentence than a dvd pirater. Comes to show you that even hollywood has a part in the government.
Quote: Originally posted by floyd dylan

Lets face it these people crave attention, and they'll soon start dropping their price tag, when the work stops coming in.


How true. You can already see this happening when an older actress or a has been actor won't throw in the towel or turn to business but instead go on the stage play circuit for a fraction of what they would have gotten in film.
I said it before and I'll say it again, to save money they're going to have to stop paying actors millions of pounds/dollars.

Some of the A list actors get paid $40 million to star in ONE movie!!!  Surely the studio should say thank you for your services but now we're cutting back and we're going to use a cheaper actor.

If the studios start to refuse to pay millions to these actors, and refuse to put them in any more movies, and then these actors will have to fall in line or retire.

Lets face it these people crave attention, and they'll soon start dropping their price tag, when the work stops coming in.
Quote: Originally posted by Gabriel Powers
No, Keith, what I meant was the LOTR films were relativly inexpensive, especially considering what made it onto the screen, whereas there are plenty of other films that cost twice as much to make. filming in New Zealand shoudn't be THAT much cheaper.


Ok, understood.  I didn't think that through thoroughly.  I don't pay much attention to how much they cost, but I do think it is way too much in general to spend that much for any movie.  World poverty, feed the hungry?  Feed me?  The list would be endless.
No, Keith, what I meant was the LOTR films were relativly inexpensive, especially considering what made it onto the screen, whereas there are plenty of other films that cost twice as much to make. filming in New Zealand shoudn't be THAT much cheaper.
I think people like DVD better than going to thee movies because they can enjoy it in their own comfort and space, plus all the other accessories are cheaper ie. Popcorn, Soft Drinks, etc. and you can have as many people as you want over to watch the movie and save a lot of money on movie tickets.
Last of all, the dvd is of digital quality, so the piture and sound is if not better than the cinemas.

So piracy is not that big an issue, unless you happen to be in China, Malaysia or the Philippines, or even Indonesia.
Quote: Originally posted by Gabriel Powers
In all seriousness I can't beleive how much it costs to make movies. There is no real reason (though I've heard plenty) as to why the entire LOTR trilogy was just over 300 mil including ads, and Spider Man 2 was 210 or what ever. Studios need to stop putting all their eggs in 2 or 3 baskets a year, it's starting to catch up with them.


Watch the extended special edition extras dvd(s) What a huge amount of effort just went into these extra DVD, besides the actual footage.

You'll see why it costs so much.  Maybe these guys should be audited.  Can we arrange a dunking booth?  Can we throw huge jaded cluster balls?  I'm not knocking LOR though. I think its the greatest movie of all time, since my childhood.  Well, I need to consider Sound of Music, but I really don't want to.
Quote: Originally posted by Jonny "Me You"
Give me $100 million bones and I'll make you one hell of a good movie. If a "star" wanted multi-millions to be in it, I'd send him packing and pay Joe Blow $50,000.

So true - even if you have a mediocure actor but you have a fantastic script and a great production crew you will certianly have a hit on your hands...
Quote: Originally posted by Gabriel Powers
 There is no real reason (though I've heard plenty) as to why the entire LOTR trilogy was just over 300 mil including ads, and Spider Man 2 was 210 or what ever. Studios need to stop putting all their eggs in 2 or 3 baskets a year, it's starting to catch up with them.


I think analysts have been saying the same thing. A large part of the Hollywood slump isn't the bogus cry of piracy, its the reckless way they do business. Give me $100 million bones and I'll make you one hell of a good movie. If a "star" wanted multi-millions to be in it, I'd send him packing and pay Joe Blow $50,000.
I was kidding!!! I thought the winking happy face established that!! Anyone who knows me personally knows that I'm anything but  capitalist.

HA HA, com'on guys laugh with me, I wouldn't actually insult my webmaster for being a good guy. Especially not in a public forum. Laugh

In all seriousness I can't beleive how much it costs to make movies. There is no real reason (though I've heard plenty) as to why the entire LOTR trilogy was just over 300 mil including ads, and Spider Man 2 was 210 or what ever. Studios need to stop putting all their eggs in 2 or 3 baskets a year, it's starting to catch up with them.
fudge factor
Quote: Originally posted by Chris Gould
Oh boo hoo, you only made 15 billion profit this year, instead of 16 billion...


Lets send them a box of fudgesicles for the lame effort.

Laugh
I have just seen a new copy of the dvd of Star Wars Episode 3 and damn the quality on it is very good and it has 5.1 sound and it doesn't have the blurred out timing marks...this pirated movie is damn good.

 Posted by Gabriel  very affraid it's idealistic nuts like you that maintain the sorry middle class in our capitalist societies.
I wonder where I sit in your world of society Gabe? (or maybe I shouldn't have asked Wink) Again you scare me Gabe Laugh2
I hate pirated movies! Quality is SHIT!

I'm glad that I can get any new release one to two weeks before you guys! It is only a liitle bit more expensive than buying my local dvd, but the money is worth it!
Just returning the favor. So far the only recommendations you've made to me was Old Boy and Spaced, the single worst movie and TV show in history.

(by that of course I mean my new favorite TV show and the best movie I've seen in over a year)
Mal
That's another strike against Gabe for the record; if he's not offending me, he's wasting my money recommending potentially rubbish DVDs! Wink
I'd never seen one of those untill I reviewed a R2 disc. I love the HK anti-piracy campagn with all the Triads thanking you for copying the disc. I think HK is a lost cause at this point guys. I don't 'pirate' movies simply because I am a geeky collector and want original pressings and artwork.

...video games on the other hand...

And Mal, you should be affraid...very affraid it's idealistic nuts like you that maintain the sorry middle class in our capitalist societies.

(Wink)
Mal
Chris, you should start an organisation, I would subscribe to your newsletter. Wink

It's true though, those FACT trailers are so condescending; you are mad if you seriously think some bloke selling DVDs is a major contributing factor to terrorism. Unless money laundering, arms dealing and drugs aren't the money making schemes we've been lead to believe. These people are just trying to pull the "fear" string like everyone else, it's so tiresome.
Quote: Originally posted by Chris Gould

As for 'piracy', it's been around for years and is now being cited as the cause of all woes for everyone (music industry, games industry, film industry). If the people concerned actually provided a product that is worth buying at a fair price in the first place, people wouldn't need to resort to 'piracy' (stupid bloody name for it).

The studios rip us off time after time by releasing so-called ultimate versions of our favourite films, only to release better versions a few months down the line. Cynical bastards.


Amen Brother Chris!
Quote: Originally posted by floyd dylan
Apparently they're going to film additional scenes to the movie, before they release it on special edition.


Presumably scenes to improve it? The film certainly needs them.

As for 'piracy', it's been around for years and is now being cited as the cause of all woes for everyone (music industry, games industry, film industry). If the people concerned actually provided a product that is worth buying at a fair price in the first place, people wouldn't need to resort to 'piracy' (stupid bloody name for it).

The studios rip us off time after time by releasing so-called ultimate versions of our favourite films, only to release better versions a few months down the line. Cynical bastards.

They bleat on about how much revenue they are loosing because of people downloading films, but most people who regularly download are - in my experience - not the type of people who would buy the discs in the fist place. What really pisses me off are the patronising adverts on DVDs telling us not to be naughty and copy movies. Hello dumbarses, I just bought the bloody film! Is it really necessary to make me sit through a 2-minute forced propaganda piece on behalf of FACT or whoever?

Anyway, I'll stop now as I'm just ranting. Suffice to say that I hate the way that the consumer is being blamed for studios 'losing out', without them taking any responsibility for their dubious pricing and marketing strategies. Oh boo hoo, you only made 15 billion profit this year, instead of 16 billion...

There was a brilliant episode of South Park that touched on this subject. Well worth watching for a good laugh.
Quote: Originally posted by floyd dylan
Apparently they're going to film additional scenes to the movie, before they release it on special edition.


Thanks Floyd
Quote: Originally posted by Keith Gump
Yes, that double dipping is frustrating.  I've learned my lesson.  The only thing is that it is such a very long wait.  I still haven't seen T3 on a special release yet.  I was hoping for DTS or a HD transfer.  I got tired of waiting and bought it a couple weeks ago from Blockbuster as a previewed DVD for 10 dollars.


I learned my lesson as well, and now I wait instead of rushing out on New Release Tuesday to buy DVD's like I used to.
Quote: Originally posted by floyd dylan
I think piracy is bad, but I also think the best way Hollywood can do to save money is to stop paying out over the top money to actors!

Amen to that!!  Especially when they put out bomb after bomb!  
Apparently they're going to film additional scenes to the movie, before they release it on special edition.
Quote: Originally posted by Keith Gump
I still haven't seen T3 on a special release yet.  I was hoping for DTS or a HD transfer.  I got tired of waiting and bought it a couple weeks ago from Blockbuster as a previewed DVD for 10 dollars.

Maybe you could have imported the region 4 version - it has DTS...
wait and wait and wait..zzzzz
Yes, that double dipping is frustrating.  I've learned my lesson.  The only thing is that it is such a very long wait.  I still haven't seen T3 on a special release yet.  I was hoping for DTS or a HD transfer.  I got tired of waiting and bought it a couple weeks ago from Blockbuster as a previewed DVD for 10 dollars.

Quote: Originally posted by Stefano Agostini
I think the downloading is bad, but the backing up movies is ok.
I agree with what you say here but I don't agree with the way they (hollywood) release crappy dvd's with special editions that are released later (double dipping) and poor quality dvd's. Also, if they reduce the price a bit, alot of the piracy wouldn't happen...
I think piracy is bad, but I also think the best way Hollywood can do to save money is to stop paying out over the top money to actors!
Piracy is a very small part of Hollywood's problem in the grande scheme of things. Most people who view pirated copies wouldnt have otherwise bothered to do so anyhow.
I think the downloading is bad, but the backing up movies is ok.
DVD Piracy
I just don't go for this hogwash about the movie industry hurting because of this.  DVD cost a few cents for them and comparing to VHS a huge money maker.  Its been the most successful format in history.  And look how much they charge for them.  

I'm not saying its ok to do that, though I do feel it should be ok after buying it to make a copy for your kids, or for backup purposes, especially for those very expensive box sets which costs in the hundreds should 1 disc get destroyed.  I'm not gonna lie and say I never downloaded a movie, because I have.  But I usually buy it when its released too.  I have a huge collection of purchased DVDs.  I just don't go for this "its killing us" hype.  I just think its greed.  What is your opinion on these two issues?

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