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Films you'd add scenes and new effect to...

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30th July 2007 12:37  #1

Cervantes Member Join Date: November 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 172
Films you'd add scenes and new effect to...
As a designer myself, in this current climate of remastering and enhancing certain movies with additional scenes and effects, such as STAR WARS TRILOGY, E.T., ALIEN, and now BLADERUNNER ( go to this for a currently showing sample of four videos of NEW footage by the way! )-   http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1800037822/video/...
and now STAR TREK:THE ORIGINAL SERIES episodes ( also check out the best site for that...  www.trekmovie.com  with it's daily updates and weekly video previews, and lively forum... ), I wonder what movies visitors to this site would most like to see re-enhanced, and in what manner...  I myself was actually disappointed with Ridley Scott's ALIEN:DIRECTOR'S CUT, as the colour-timing was TOO dark compared to the already perfect colour of the original DVD release(one of my favourite films ever, and a beautifully shot film )...because he DIDN'T include the fantastic effects shots of the NOSTROMO in planet orbit that were left out, but seen in the extras of the "Quadrilogy boxset",(which in my humble view gave an epic feeling to proceedings)...NOR the lovely side-on SHUTTLE shot in space receding away...NOR the excellently creepy head-on sequence Kane on the operating table, seeing the Face-hugger burned into his helmet faceplate that was also an extra...NOR did he use the scary sound-effect for the eventual sos/warning scene that was used in the original dvd extra!...so I'd like an FINAL DIRECTOR'S CUT of this please Ridley...but look forward to BLADERUNNER.  Also want the stop-motion Blair Monster re-added and cleaned up in THE THING please Happy

30th July 2007 13:02  #2

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,104 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
I'd quite like them to stop f**king around with old films and make some decent new ones.

30th July 2007 13:25  #3

Cervantes Member Join Date: November 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 172
LOL...wouldn't we all... Wink

30th July 2007 13:59  #4

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
I think I've said this elsewhere but I'd really like Warners to give Firefox a CGI overhaul for the end flight sequences. The effects were probably the best they could look back in '82 particularly as the FX had to be composited on bright sky plates but it would be great to have all the old model shots re-done like the final Deathstar battle in Star Wars.

Unfortunately I don't think this will ever happen as the audience just isn't there for this title. Plus I don't thinks Clint Eastwood is one for going back and 'messing' with past works.

But hey, if anyone from Warners is reading, float the idea, come up with a modest budget, and give it to ILM for them to do on the weekends.

30th July 2007 14:25  #5

goat boy Member Join Date: April 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 87
Chris Gould wrote: I'd quite like them to stop f**king around with old films and make some decent new ones.

Here here. When will they stop?
Waiting for the day Some Like It Hot will have Will Ferrell and Ben Stiller digitally inserted into the movie for a more contemporary audience or Bruce Willis for the Maltease Falcon. You know it's just a matter of time.

30th July 2007 17:36  #6

Cheddar J. Cheese Member Join Date: October 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,492
goat boy wrote: Waiting for the day Some Like It Hot will have Will Ferrell and Ben Stiller digitally inserted into the movie for a more contemporary audience or Bruce Willis for the Maltease Falcon. You know it's just a matter of time.

For the love of God, don't give them ideas!

31st July 2007 1:13  #7

Stephen Etherton Member Join Date: October 2003 Location: United States Posts: 706
I dont mind the idea.  I do not remember hearing a great outcry of hatred when the redid many of the special effect for Star Trek: The Motion Picture.  

I think to a degree 'ol Georgie Lucas is correct when he says most films are not completed, but abandoned because of time or money or abilities of the time.  How many people have ever created something, and many years after still feel like it could/should still be improved upon?  As a creative person in my own right, I continue to learn to do things better, and wish I could apply new ideas and new techniques to old things I did.

If it can be an improvement and not a detraction from the original, as I feel the previously mentioned Star Trek 1 was, and even most of the improvements to Star Wars, I think the additions and the changes are welcomed by me.  With todays audience being so much more technically inclined, and less forgiving to see the 'puppeteers strings', new improvements allow the film to be accepted by a whole new audience.  I can not join in the chanting of the masses who say if you don't like the original with it's flaws, you dont deserve to like the film at all.  Sometimes change is for a good thing and on the flip side, change for changes sake is a bad thing (ala, Greedo did not shoot first).

Just some of my 2cents there.  

31st July 2007 15:37  #8

Cervantes Member Join Date: November 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 172
Very well put...I totally agree with your sentiments above Stephen...I had forgotten to suggest how much of an improvement STAR TREK THE MOTION PICTURE:DIRECTOR'S CUT is... ( and do check out the lively, informative   www.trekmovie.com   for the latest updates on J.J. Abram's upcoming ORIGINAL SERIES-era set movie, along with the current ORIGINAL SERIES REMASTERING. )  Thankfully, it was enhanced by the late, great Robert Wise before his untimely demise...and his additions have GREATLY improved on what was an unfortunately very rushed theatrical release at the time...  Your reminder of George Lucas' assertion that creative works are quite often unfinished due to time and money concerns is correct, and that includes movie-making...  I approve of Director's and Studios revisiting past movies...IF they are attempting to ENHANCE or FIX material that was obviously BADLY done originally, when it comes to re-releasing DVDs.  Unfortunately they may ALSO alter material that was WELL DONE originally in the eyes of FANS, and I personally cite the likes of GREEDO NOW SHOOTING FIRST in STAR WARS:A NEW HOPE:THE SPECIAL EDITION...along with A GHOSTLY YOUNG DARTH VADER INSTEAD OF THE OLDER ONE at the end of RETURN OF THE JEDI:THE SPECIAL EDITION...and WALKIE TALKIES NOW BEING WIELDED INSTEAD OF GUNS in E.T., along with a "CARTOONIFIED" LOOK TO E.T.'S EYES IN GENERAL NOW in THE SPECIAL EDITION...and much-loved footage frames ACTUALLY BEING CUT OUT ALTOGETHER NOW in the likes of ALIEN:DIRECTOR'S CUT and the forthcoming BLADERUNNER:THE FINAL CUT ( See today's article on  www.thedigitalbits.com  for the latest on this, which states that only MINOR additions have been made, yet there seems to be 47 MINUTES WORTH (!) of terrific deleted scenes that could have been used in some way... ), as disappointing examples of bad judgements ( hey, It's only my opinion )...  I do remember however, how much of an improvement I regarded James Cameron's longer ALIENS:THE SPECIAL EDITION and THE ABYSS:THE SPECIAL EDITION to be, compared to the original theatrical releases...  Finally, I have noted with interest that there is a photo of George Lucas on the current set of the new INDY movie with Harrison Ford, where he is wearing a HAN SHOT FIRST! t-shirt, so there JUST MAY be a surprise turnabout once again when the ULTIMATE STAR WARS BOXSET is finally released...  Happy  

31st July 2007 17:37  #9

Sam Spade Member Join Date: January 2007 Location: United States Posts: 2,032 Send a message via MSN to Sam Spade
I'm with Christ on this one.Stop revamping and create something new!

1st August 2007 1:06  #10

goat boy Member Join Date: April 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 87
I think that if you look at most if not all classic movies there were problems of some kind like time constraints or low budgets not to mention studio, director or actor conflicts but thats what shaped these films.Terry Gilliam said something like To go back and change these movies is just cheating. One day George Lucas will realize that after years and years of changes the original unaltered movies weren't so bad after all.

1st August 2007 5:38  #11

Sam Spade Member Join Date: January 2007 Location: United States Posts: 2,032 Send a message via MSN to Sam Spade
I mean Chris haahha

1st August 2007 13:00  #12

Cervantes Member Join Date: November 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 172
goat boy

AS LONG as the ORIGINAL versions are ALSO availabe on the DVDs...for the fans that want to see the original releases...then I'm all for enhancement and additions...if that's what a Director / Studio wants to try.  Lots of films used to be cut for extra showings in theatres, whereas now that doesn't seem to be an issue, especially on DVD.  Hell, even the already long LORD OF THE RINGS movies are better with the extra extended sequences in my view...and Terry I think is wrong on this one.

1st August 2007 13:16  #13

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,104 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
Sam Spade wrote: I mean Chris haahha

I only go by Christ on a Sunday.

1st August 2007 17:02  #14

goat boy Member Join Date: April 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 87
Cervantes wrote: goat boy

AS LONG as the ORIGINAL versions are ALSO availabe on the DVDs...for the fans that want to see the original releases...then I'm all for enhancement and additions...if that's what a Director / Studio wants to try.  Lots of films used to be cut for extra showings in theatres, whereas now that doesn't seem to be an issue, especially on DVD.  Hell, even the already long LORD OF THE RINGS movies are better with the extra extended sequences in my view...and Terry I think is wrong on this one.


I can't argue with Terry, he is perhaps the best director still working today. Perhaps reading Gilliam on Gilliam would change your mind.

2nd August 2007 11:59  #15

Cervantes Member Join Date: November 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 172
goat boy

I really like Terry Gilliam, both his work, and the man himself. He seems to be a terrific guy in any interviews I've seen of him...but I think this is an APPLES and ORANGES topic, that some may not mind, and indeed welcome..but others may strongly dislike and have nothing to do with...  For myself, I think it really depends on the subject.  As someone who loves effects technology in general, I like that certain "flawed" work can be rectified at a later date for say, DVD releases, and SOME additional stuff CAN add an extra dimension.  But as an example...I wouldn't want ANY changes to the 1956 "FORBIDDEN PLANET" effects which though somewhat dated, are still exceptional...whereas STAR TREK:ORIGINAL SERIES is being enhanced with replacement ( and in some instances, additional ) effects along with it's remastered picture quality, and even looks set to be eventually released in a WIDESCREEN format too... www.trekmovie.com has recently confirmed that Japan is currently showing it in a widescreen form.  Purists will hate this, but I look forward to revisiting it in this "cinematic-looking" way, as compared to the 4:3 box-like shape that it was originally filmed in.  Some of the frame will be cropped, and the live-action will look closer to us, but I think it will look great to get the benefit of the new widescreen effects scenes...even if some of it becomes a bit more "SERGIO LEONE" in it's look...but then, I'm someone who thinks that this will give the live-action a more dramatic feel anyway...  

2nd August 2007 14:07  #16

goat boy Member Join Date: April 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 87
I look forward to seeing the enhanced version of Star Trek the series, i remember Red Dwarf getting the same widescreen treatment with enhanced CGI effects years ago, at first it was a novelty but it soon wore thin much like Star Wars.

2nd August 2007 14:11  #17

Matt Contributor Join Date: October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2,113
Cervantes wrote: Purists will hate this, but I look forward to revisiting it in this "cinematic-looking" way, as compared to the 4:3 box-like shape that it was originally filmed in.  Some of the frame will be cropped, and the live-action will look closer to us, but I think it will look great to get the benefit of the new widescreen effects scenes...even if some of it becomes a bit more "SERGIO LEONE" in it's look...but then, I'm someone who thinks that this will give the live-action a more dramatic feel anyway...  
Cropping the image from 4:3 to make it widescreen would be a bad decision, it would totally ruin the intended look of the original show. Not only that, but at the price tag they're asking for the HD DVD release the only potential buyers they're going to get are going to be the die hard Trek fans, who wouldn't at all be pleased that Paramount is cropping their holy Trek. I'm pretty sure the HD release will feature alternating aspect ratios with no cropping of the original material and a widescreen aspect ratio for updated effects shots, just like some broadcast stations are showing the series in syndication here in the U.S. and the series is presented when downloaded from XBOX Live.

2nd August 2007 17:11  #18

Cervantes Member Join Date: November 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 172
Matt, that is interesting about there being some U.S. showings of an "alternating" aspect ratio STAR TREK:REMASTERED, as I'd previously only read somewhere that the Xbox Live showings of the enhanced episodes in that way had been a "mix-up"...  However, not having seen any of the Xbox Live downloads yet, I don't yet know how distracting it is to keep reverting back and forth between ratios...  I still think I'd rather everything to be widescreen, rather than this scenario, so that proceedings move along uniformly...  

2nd August 2007 18:25  #19

Cheddar J. Cheese Member Join Date: October 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,492
If they wanted to make it widescreen all the time, without cropping, they could just extend the sides, like, have the original image in the middle, with CGI extensions on the side.

Or, y'know, they could leave well enough alone, period.

11th August 2007 15:05  #20

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
Man alive! Do you know how much work that would take? To extend each shot left and right digitally. Frame by frame? It would be an interesting idea to test but I would imagine it would be a huge undertaking particularly for 79 episodes.

The easier option would still take a long time (and apparently the Hd-ing of ST has done just that) but you'd have to asses each shot of the full frame 1.37 image (if it was in fact 1.37. I don't know for sure) recompose for 16x9 and where it didn't work or fit, zoom in or out along the Z axis to achieve some sort of acceptable result. The end result might be passable but it would not be in any way how it was originally shot or broadcast. I will be interesting to eventually see these upgraded episodes (in 16x9 or not) but as with Star Wars, I think most purists will only be happy with access to both old and new versions. I think in my ideal world, any boxset would have cleaned up HD original ratio versions along with the new updated, reformatted HD versions. But who would make such a set, how would you price it and who would be arsed to buy it other than the avid fans?

I always come back to Star Wars on this. Even though I don't like some of the changes to those 3 films and even though we now have the old untouched versions available, if you asked me which one I'd chose to watch, I'd go for the Special Editions every time. It's good that we eventually got the old versions (albeit non anamporphic) but I only really see them as archival use. To see the progression (or regression in some cases) so I have to wonder if having seen these new updated Star Treks, I'd feel the same way about the old versions.

It would be good to have them but would I really choose to watch them? I suppose if the updated shots were c**p or called attention to themselves  then the answer to that would be be easy but by all accounts, the new shots are subtle and sympathetic to the look and feel of the show as it was back in the day.

11th August 2007 23:49  #21

David Blackwell Senior Member Join Date: February 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2,608 Send a message via MSN to David Blackwell
I would like to see them go back and do the director's cut of The Avengers (30 minutes were cut before theatrical release).  

Also I think they could go back and make an even better cut of Highlander: Endgame (the producer's cut and the alternate earlier cut on the DVD set feature material that should be combined in an even better version) despite the faults of that film.

20th August 2007 3:28  #22

Ravenwood Member Join Date: June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 230
I'd like to redo all of the visual effects in Mars Attacks!  The Martians would look awesome if done by Harryhausen, I think the whole movie would work better with non-CGI effects. Other than that movie, I wouldn't change any of them.

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