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high def dvds

Forums - Discs & Movies - high def dvds 

8th January 2006 12:31  #1

adam roddis Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 100
high def dvds
hi, when they bring theses out ,will they be bringing old films out with a high def picture on high def dvd, cos if they are I will sell all my dvds and get em on high def, imagine texas chainsaw massacre on high def, thats if they can, I dont know, do you lot know?

8th January 2006 16:11  #2

floyd dylan Banned Join Date: April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 913
Depends on the studio who brings them out, if it's MGM/Sony then yes, if it's Warner, Universal, Paramount, Fox etc then half and half, the super box office hits such as Star Wars, ID4, Indy, Titanic, Alien Quad, Die Hard, will have upgraded pics because they know that a mass population would be highly interested.

As for TCM, and other low budget cult classic movies, then no, because the distribution studios won't want to spend the extra cash boosting the picture and sound just for a small minority.

Besides I love the grainy look of TCM, that's what makes it even more disturbing.

8th January 2006 17:28  #3

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
There will come a point (and we're there now) when the resolution of hi def (whether DVD or D-Cinema) outstrips film shot on 16mm, as TCM was. I don't believe it will be cost effective or beneficial in any way to re-master something like TCM at anything higher than HD-DVD or jpeg 2000 formats  because the resolution of the 16mm stock doesn't warrent it.

8th January 2006 17:37  #4

Matt Contributor Join Date: October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2,113
Intergalactic Ponce wrote: There will come a point (and we're there now) when the resolution of hi def (whether DVD or D-Cinema) outstrips film shot on 16mm, as TCM was. I don't believe it will be cost effective or beneficial in any way to re-master something like TCM at anything higher than HD-DVD or jpeg 2000 formats  because the resolution of the 16mm stock doesn't warrent it.
Exactly, but that's not to say that they wouldn't release such a film just to cash in on putting it on a new format. There are a lot of films that when brought out on HD just aren't going to be much better than their DVD counterparts as far as the video presentation is concerned.

8th January 2006 17:44  #5

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
You're quite right. There is a financial benefit for releasing TCM ad nauseum on 4k, 8k or whatever they come up with next, just not one for us as viewers. It will be interesting to see how many people rush to buy TV Boxsets in the HD format. It will also be quite absurd as well, to think that people will actually be made to believe through marketing that something like Seinfeld will actually look better on Blu-Ray. The biggest benefit I can see with TV Boxsets is that you'll get more episode onto fewer discs.

8th January 2006 18:18  #6

Aaron Schneiderman Senior Member Join Date: September 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,198
Any high definition format will be limited by the original source material. You can clean a print up but you simply can't put back what isn't there. Though Warner did a great job on the restoration of "King Kong," it still shows quite a bit of age. A high definition version would only make those flaws more evident. My collection includes many films that are decades old and they simply won't benefit that much from an HD remaster. I believe HD will only make an impact on newer films that have been digitally photographed. As I said in another post, there isn't enough advantage for "most" people to make the switch at this time. The average price of catalog DVDs continues to drop,  DVD players are dirt cheap, people have invested a lot of money in their collections and the collecting phenomenon is pretty widespread. This is a phenomenon that simply didn't occur to the same extent with VHS tapes. I look at my own collection and wonder what I could possibly gain visually or convenience-wise from the HD versions...not much except for boasting rights to my friends. There are maybe a few titles I might consider but the current quality of visuals delivered from DVDs has really pushed the envelope.  

8th January 2006 18:24  #7

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
I don't push envelopes. I raise bars.

8th January 2006 18:37  #8

Tigerclaw Member Join Date: November 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 493 Send a message via MSN to Tigerclaw
I agree 100% with Aaron.  HD DVD won't make a difference unless you have the proper equipments with more current movies release.

8th January 2006 18:54  #9

Aaron Schneiderman Senior Member Join Date: September 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,198
Intergalactic Ponce wrote: I don't push envelopes. I raise bars.

You can't raise the bar if you've run out of rungs.

9th January 2006 14:40  #10

Jonny "Me You" Senior Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,863
Aaron's completely right. HD-DVD (Blu-Ray too)won't look alot better then current, properly mastered DVD movies. You can check out the difference for yourself right now at a bestbuy, or similar store that shows you HD movie clips next to DVD movies. It's just a tiny difference. Especially on a screen less then 100 inches. Where I think HD shines is live broadcasts of sports or similar events.

Just wait, both formats are going to flop by industry standards. They're the DVD-audio of movies.

9th January 2006 16:16  #11

Matt Contributor Join Date: October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2,113
Intergalactic Ponce wrote: The biggest benefit I can see with TV Boxsets is that you'll get more episode onto fewer discs.
I actually thought that too when I was thinking of different ways that they may market HD discs, but while they could probably fit a six-disc television set in one 50 GB HD disc, it won't be cost effective to do so until further down the road when the cost of manufacturing the HD discs comes down a bit as current DVDs are extremely cheap to produce, especially in comparison to the newer discs. Still, there's little doubt that down the road this will happen though because it would save on packaging, shipping, etc. to do so.

9th January 2006 16:19  #12

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
Aaron Schneiderman wrote: Intergalactic Ponce wrote: I don't push envelopes. I raise bars.

You can't raise the bar if you've run out of rungs.


Quite true, but I'm not climbing a ladder, more upping the ante.

9th January 2006 18:38  #13

adam roddis Member Join Date: June 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 100
hi def
[quote=Aaron Schneiderman wrote]Any high definition format will be limited by the original source material. You can clean a print up but you simply can't put back what isn't there.

Well didn't they just  re-release cannibal holocaust on hi def dvd and it's suppost to be amazing? well thats what i've bin told.

9th January 2006 18:49  #14

Adrian Senior Member Join Date: September 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,305
hi def
adam roddis wrote:
Well didn't they just  re-release cannibal holocaust on hi def dvd and it's suppost to be amazing? well thats what i've bin told.


I'd find that hard to believe that one of the first hi def dvds is a rather infamous horror movie, not to mention the fact that players for hi-def dvds are still months away.

I think what Adam was trying to say is that there is not the quantam leap from dvd to hi-def dvds the way there was from VHS to DVD.

9th January 2006 18:54  #15

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
I don't think we're saying that old material remastered in hi def want look the best it has looked so far, just that hi def is probably the last milestone for some older films and certainly for TV shows up to them being shot on HD for instance. If Cannibal Holocaust was shot on 35mm then it has more room for improvement than TCM or other films shot on 16mm unless there is someway of digitally enhancing what isn't there, if that makes any sense at all.

11th January 2006 1:27  #16

simply-haley Member Join Date: November 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 163
oh good! I'm glad people are thinking this is going to be a flop! WHOA thats a relief I thought Hi-Def DVD was going to be a whole new kind with a different shape of cover and I was going to be mad! I have soo many dvds and I'm dreading a new system! If there is I hope the dvd cases look the same!

11th January 2006 5:25  #17

Aaron Schneiderman Senior Member Join Date: September 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,198
Lets see...  Playtape failed... The RCA SelectaVision Videodisc failed...  The Pioneer Laserdisc failed....  The Sony Betamax failed....  Super-VHS failed...  Digital Tape failed...  DIVX failed...  Sony Minidisc... failed. Why? They all had one thing in common: they simply offered little advantage over a competing technology. Why is the ipod a phenomenal seller? It offered a huge technological leap from the Sony Walkman. Hell you can put your entire CD collection on one unit the size of a pack of cigarettes and carry it wherever you go. The DVD is going nowhere folks... just watch. Blue Ray and HD-DVD are gonna fight this out while something better ends up coming out of development. I believe it will work like the TIVO or ipod... motionless software maybe similar to the old cartridge video games. Something with greater portability and more compact than even the UMD....something the size of a PS2 memory card or smaller.

11th January 2006 5:41  #18

floyd dylan Banned Join Date: April 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 913
The DVD is going a long way it's the Blu Ray and HD DVD that'll be going nowhere.

Blu Ray is dead in the water, PS3 games will be a huge hit, but for Blu Ray, the general public won't want to re-replace their movies as they are quite happy to with what they see and hear, and besides if they find out that the PS3 will be broke if you try and modify it by making it region free or to play pirate copies, then that's another nail in the blu ray coffin.

Only movie geeks will get a hard on over this, but for the mass population nobody cares. they are quite happy with the normal DVDs because they can see and hear the movies, play any region, and also they can play pirate discs.

Also what happens when your favourite movie is cut in your country and not in another?  Are you going to be happy knowing that another country has the full uncut version?

There are films such as Chato's Land which is a PG and cut to ribbons in the US, but there is a full uncut version out in Germany, the same with Convoy which is missing a few scenes in the US, but is also complete in Germany.

Are you going to be happy with having an incomplete version of the movie, even though there's a complete version elsewhere in the world? Or for that matter another country having your favourite cult movie out and there is no word on whether it will ever be released in your own?

Also Sony won't release the highest definition of their movies on Blu-Ray, because in a year or two later they'll try and con the general public by releasing a super-bit version of the same movie, just like they are doing with their DVDs now, same goes with special features.

Not only that, but it will only be brand new films that you’ll only be able to tell the difference in picture and sound quality, whilst the older films made in the 70s and 80s which will still be of poor quality and depending on which studio has distributed but then you can't guarantee if the distributors can afford or be bothered to clean and boost the sound quality.

Not only that but when a film gets a digital makeover, the colour tones always vary with each film such as Silence of the Lambs and Halloween, I mean do you remember all the fiasco when Halloween came out on DVD, people were complaining that the colour was wrong, so another DVD of the same film will come out with a different colour tone so you'll be forking out more money for the so called correct version.

But also people prefer the original soundtrack as opposed to 5.1 or DTS, look at Star Wars where Lucas has deliberatly drowned out the final attack on the Death Star music score in favour of more sound effects, same with Jaws we've got 5.1, DTS but the fans wanted the original mono soundtrack.

How long has it taken for the TV studios such as Fox to release their TV series on to DVD? It's taken them four to five years to get half way through, or finish their collection, only Paramount has zipped off there series with ease, but how many people are prepared to shell out £80/$129 for each season again? Not many.

The internet is the future for downloading movies on to an MP4 style movie players, just like music for MP3 players, and the studios will have to come to terms that the general public and movie fans do not want to be tied down to a particular region, so the studios will have to get their act together and start listening to the movie fans and the general publics needs.

11th January 2006 9:12  #19

Worst Nightmare Senior Member Join Date: July 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 6,706 Send a message via AIM to Worst Nightmare Send a message via ICQ to Worst Nightmare Send a message via MSN to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Yahoo to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Google to Worst Nightmare
Tigerclaw wrote: I agree 100% with Aaron.  HD DVD won't make a difference unless you have the proper equipments with more current movies release.That is the exact truth - In Australia, it is believed that there is around 1 percent of households with a true HD capable display system. They do sell alot of plamas but these are usually the real cheap ones that are usually 852X480 which in theory won't even display PAL properly....

11th January 2006 11:13  #20

Chris Gould Editor Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7,126 Send a message via ICQ to Chris Gould Send a message via MSN to Chris Gould Send a message via Skype to Chris Gould
floyd dylan wrote: The DVD is going a long way it's the Blu Ray and HD DVD that'll be going nowhere.

I think you misunderstood what he was saying...

11th January 2006 14:03  #21

Intergalactic Ponce Member Join Date: April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1,151
Be aware people to make sure that any flat panel HD TV's, that you may be wanting to buy in the sales, have 2 HDMI sockets. A lot of early models only have one and you'll be in a pickle when you need one socket for HD Satellite or Cable and another for your eventual HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. Who is this Blu Ray anyway?

11th January 2006 16:33  #22

Jonny "Me You" Senior Member Join Date: March 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,863
simply-haley wrote: I hope the dvd cases look the same!

Courtesy of thedigitalbits.com at CES -



11th January 2006 20:31  #23

simply-haley Member Join Date: November 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 163
WHAT! their different cases!! ahh! thats so annoying why couldnt they just make it look like a normal dvd but then like on the cover art make a banner that says HD DVD those cases are ugly & they look skinnier then the regular dvd, that will loook so ugly with my collection!

11th January 2006 23:53  #24

Adam K Member Join Date: September 2005 Location: United States Posts: 247
simply-haley wrote: WHAT! their different cases!! ahh! thats so annoying why couldnt they just make it look like a normal dvd but then like on the cover art make a banner that says HD DVD those cases are ugly & they look skinnier then the regular dvd, that will loook so ugly with my collection!

Well, then, don't upgrade. LOL Wait until someone wins the war THEN upgrade...if you want and if someone wins the war. That would be your best bet.

12th January 2006 4:49  #25

Worst Nightmare Senior Member Join Date: July 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 6,706 Send a message via AIM to Worst Nightmare Send a message via ICQ to Worst Nightmare Send a message via MSN to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Yahoo to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Google to Worst Nightmare
Just buy a player which does all formats so then it doesn't matter who wins or loses!

12th January 2006 14:27  #26

aleks Member Join Date: December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 51 Send a message via AIM to aleks Send a message via MSN to aleks Send a message via Yahoo to aleks Send a message via Google to aleks Send a message via Jabber to aleks
Don't forget that certain "Special Features" of HD-DVD releases are exclusive to Windows Media Center!  Another negative for HD-DVD.

13th January 2006 6:31  #27

Aaron Schneiderman Senior Member Join Date: September 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,198
Worst Nightmare wrote: Just buy a player which does all formats so then it doesn't matter who wins or loses!

And what about all those titles you bought on the losing format? What happens when you wanna upgrade your player and you can't find the hardware to play your discs? You wanna buy some old RCA Selectavision Discs? How 'bout some DIVX titles....maybe you wanna buy a few Pioneer Laserdiscs.....How about a few Beta tapes? Investing in either Blue-Ray or HD-DVD at this point is potentially a waste of money. VHS is pretty much dead, but you will be able to buy players for many years to come...there is still a s**t load of tapes out there.

14th January 2006 17:28  #28

Adrian Senior Member Join Date: September 2005 Location: United States Posts: 1,305
I still buy laserdiscs Aaron.  There are plenty of titles available on laserdiscs that have never been available on DVD or are out of print and ridiculously expensive on DVD.  I just picked up This Island Earth and This is Spinal Tap's Criterion edition which has different deleted scenes from the MGM DVD.

Also, on losing formats, the BetaMax player was available for a ridiculously long time after it was officially declared dead.

I'm not in a hurry to buy blue-ray/hd-dvd until we see who wins out.  I'll be content with my DVDs.  Also, I am not sure that I have the connector on my TV to support the next generation of players.

15th January 2006 18:21  #29

dbeamish Contributor Join Date: August 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 511
Well I'm really looking forward to HD-DVD. Watching trailers in 720p on the xbox 360 on an HD display is incredible. The inlaws today told me they thought it looked 3D it was so amazing.

The jump from VHS to DVD is the same as the jump from DVD to HD-DVD. Well.. HD material anyway, since I haven;t seen any HD-DVDs yet.

15th January 2006 23:28  #30

Worst Nightmare Senior Member Join Date: July 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 6,706 Send a message via AIM to Worst Nightmare Send a message via ICQ to Worst Nightmare Send a message via MSN to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Yahoo to Worst Nightmare Send a message via Google to Worst Nightmare
Aaron Schneiderman wrote: Worst Nightmare wrote: Just buy a player which does all formats so then it doesn't matter who wins or loses!

And what about all those titles you bought on the losing format? What happens when you wanna upgrade your player and you can't find the hardware to play your discs? You wanna buy some old RCA Selectavision Discs? How 'bout some DIVX titles....maybe you wanna buy a few Pioneer Laserdiscs.....How about a few Beta tapes? Investing in either Blue-Ray or HD-DVD at this point is potentially a waste of money. VHS is pretty much dead, but you will be able to buy players for many years to come...there is still a s**t load of tapes out there.
You know at the end of the day you can always convert an old format to a new format quite easily - using capture cards, dvd burners, etc. And usually you will still be able to keep the same quality the original came in. I cannot see why it will be a problem if you buy titles on a losing format if you have hardware that can take it - Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are quite similar in the way it makes and stores the data (i.e. blue laser). Now a days, even a real cheap dvdplayer can do all formats of DVD (you know, the -R and +R war) as well as JPEG and winmedia and divx, etc
I cannot understand why there is so much hoopla about this stuff...
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