Superman Returns: Special Edition (US - DVD R1)
Gabe thinks the Man of Steel got a bum wrap on his flawed return to film...
Feature
After 5 years away from Earth, searching the exploded remains of his home planet Krypton, Superman has returned. The only problem is that in his absence, the world has moved on. Lois Lane is engaged with a son, and has won a Pulitzer Prize for an editorial entitled "Why the World Doesn't Need Superman". But the depressed Kryptonian isn't the only man back in the limelight, Lex Luthor has rebuilt his empire, and thanks to the fact that Superman wasn't around to testify at his hearing, is free from prison.

Superman Returns, in this humble man's opinion, should've been garbage. First of all, we live in a time where the character has become painfully quaint. A world where even Tim Burton's representation of Batman seems too childish. When it was released less than 20 years ago, audiences were shocked by its PG-13 nature. Batman can be coloured much darker than Burton represented him, but Superman? Superman's a boy scout, a relic, and boy scouts and relics belong in museums, not in modern cinemas.
I'll also mention the sad fact that I don't really like Richard Donner's original film, or films if you count the second movie, and I knew that director Bryan Singer wasn't planning on rebooting the series. Superman Returns is a semi-sequel to Superman II. Donner's films have aged poorly, and I honestly see them in the same campy light I see the old '60s Batman series. I appreciate their existence, and readily acknowledge that without the original film I wouldn't have Spiderman or Batman Begins, but I just don't like the film, and was not looking forward to a multi-million dollar direct follow-up, no matter who was behind the camera.
And who was behind the camera, but the man who ditched the X-Men franchise. X-Men 2 is most likely my favourite superhero film ever made, and it ended on one of the best cliff hangers a fan could possibly ask for, the reflection of the Dark Phoenix. I can't help but be "very disappointed" in Singer for his decision to leave the franchise in the hands of Brett Ratner and a series of Fox executives with only money on their minds. I blame Singer as much for the utter failure of X-Men 3 (which was released a little over a month before Superman Returns) as I do anyone else.
Watching the film in theaters this past summer, I was already expecting to be under whelmed and unimpressed, and shockingly enough I wasn't, not completely. The film opens with the same credit music and title graphics as the original. Everything's happy and silly, but as Bryan Singer's name faded, so did all those dated, warm-fuzzy feelings. Despite the production's assurances that Superman Returns would be a continuation of Donner's films, this is a much darker, and more modern film. It isn't dark in that bloodthirsty way most modern comic book films like Batman Begins or Blade tend to be, Superman Returns is a shockingly melancholy film. It's concerned with emotion and levity even more than spectacle or entertainment. It is this sad streak that was the film's ultimate downfall, but it's also the only thing that made the film at all memorable to me.

Warner Bros. shouldn't have been surprised by the fact that their $270 million investment didn't show a return based on the returns and public opinion of Universal's 2003 comic book release, Hulk. Hulk was an artistically and emotionally ambitious film released to an audience that wanted to see smashing. It's a flawed film, but one that I adore, and one that cannot be accused of being unoriginal. The overall idea of Superman Returns, a superhero film featuring an infinitely powerful character feeling sorry for himself and lost in the world, is very similar to that of Ang Lee's giant green box-office flop. If Hulk was a superhero movie by way of a Chinese opera, Superman Returns is a superhero movie by way of a trashy romance novel as written by someone like Arthur Miller. Kind of.
I had to ask myself what Singer saw in the character, other than a fetishistic love for the original film. What was it about this superhero that made him willing to leave a series he built from the ground up in the incapable hands of a bunch of Fox bean counters? Well, Singer makes very personal films. X-men 2 (in my opinion his best film), is a pretty obvious metaphor for feeling out of step with the rest of the world. Singer seems to have an abundance of angst and alienation, and Freud would tell you this was due to the fact that he was adopted and is gay. Who could possibly be more alienated than a homosexual in America but a mutant. And who could possibly be more alienated than a mutant but an alien. And, of course, who could be more alienated than an average alien on earth? Why, an alien that is the last remaining member of his entire species.
The adoption angle is key, as everyone knows (or at least everyone with a general knowledge of the character) that Superman himself was adopted. This is magnified by one of the film's most maligned plot points, one that I cannot go into without a bit of spoilage. Skip the rest of this paragraph if you haven't seen the film. I am speaking of the inclusion of Superman's son by Lois (which must be disturbing to Lois, as she had her mind erased at the end of Superman II, and must not remember ever having sexual intercourse with the Man of Steel), which at first seems like a cheap ploy for drama, but by the end of the film actually makes sense. As Superman stood over his sleeping child, willing to let his child be raised by mortals as he was, I finally got that the character was suppose to bring about an emotional circle for our hero. It does create a problem for the possible sequel though.

The majority of average people (i.e.: not critics) I've spoken to complained about the lack of action in the film. I have to agree. I really could've done with a fistfight between Superman and someone like Zod, or Braniac, but we only get a few scenes of the Man of Steel saving people from large-scale disasters. There is one ingenious sequence at about the 40-minute mark where Superman saves a falling jet full of reporters, and sets it down in a baseball field. The ingenious part comes in not with the actual action of saving the plane, which is nice, but in the fact that Superman makes his reappearance to the world in the most public way possible. It's funny, and humour is lacking in the rest of the film. The whole thing is rather down hill from this point.
But the problem isn't so much the lack of action, but the lack of normal superhero intrigue. Somehow, with more millions of dollars at their disposal than any film in history (allegedly), Singer and company forgot to write an interesting overall story. X-men seemed like an unfinished film due to Fox's budget and time restraints, but despite the brief run time Singer managed to introduce characters and conceive of a threat for them to quash. With Superman the writers had a chance to really open up the canvas with a pre-existing character that was already part of the public zeitgeist, and they have Lex Luthor concoct another real-estate scam? Don't get me wrong, it's a really great scam, but we've seen that already.
Luthor is still an intriguing character, thanks in no small part to Kevin Spacey who strikes a nice balance between funny and frightening. This isn't the harmlessly wicked Luthor of the Donner films, but a very angry Luthor bent on revenge. Well, revenge and a real estate scam. It's too bad the character is so neglected by the writing staff. I would've pushed the opposing nature of the hero and villain a little more.

With a runtime of two and a half hours, it's maddening that almost nothing really happens. The theme of alienation and solitude is a nice one, but when the film meanders like a Kabuki show on downers it's all a bit too much. By the time Luthor's plans finally come to fruition the 90% of the theatrical audience was checking their watches. A long movie isn't a problem so long as there's still a bunch of plot to plough through, but here it's indulgent. I understand that the importance of Lois and her fiancé’s relationship is important, but sticking by them during two elongated, Superman-less action scenes is unnecessary (not to mention a waste of a massive budget). I would've cut these scenes, which would be unfortunate because it would mean cutting James Marsden, a good actor, from another superhero movie (the guy was royally screwed on X-3).
Cinematically, this is a freaking gorgeous film, from cinematography to costume design (I like the new look, the old suit looked like a Halloween costume). I wish that Metropolis itself was more stylized, as only the Daily Planet set looks like anything special. I'd heard somewhere that Singer was looking to create an Art Deco look to the film to set it in the same sort of non-existent, style-bending timeline, like the Batman animated series, or Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. I see a bit of this in the finished film, but not as much as I'd really like. Despite this, the look of the film is striking, just in a slightly less overtly stylized way, and I'm happy to say that it looks a Hell of a lot classier than the Donner films.
I can't wrap this rather lengthy little review up without mentioning Superman himself, Brandon Routh. Routh had some huge shoes to fill, as Christopher Reeves' rendition of the character is one of the most popular and enduring film characters of all time. Even I liked him in the role. Singer was smart to cast an unknown, and his choice paid off in spades. I can't imagine Nic Cage, or any of the other name actors once attached to role holding a candle to Routh, who embodies both the Man of Steel and his bumbling alter ego positively perfectly. He's a joy all around, and I hope he has a successful career in the future. He deserves it. Between Routh and Hugh Jackman, Singer is officially 2 for 2 in the field of casting unknowns as popular comic book characters. I'll also give some quick props to Parker Posey, who's adorable and hilarious in her supporting role. Another great choice.

Video
Big budget blockbusters are filmed in digital HD more frequently these days thanks to George Lucas (even if you hate the man's films, you have to acknowledge his contributions to modern film). Superman Returns is no exception. Unfortunately, the fact that I know it was meant for an HD presentation means I'm less willing to let video quality inadequacies slide.
Overall the image is very pretty, and so long as sequences are well lit they look great. Colours are bright, and edges are crisp and solid. Problems arise in darkness. Dark backgrounds are wrought with noise and blocking. Shadowed skin tones suffer from some cross-colouration, and even digital blocking in some of the more severe cases. I'm very curious about the Blu-ray and HD DVD releases. Did Warner Bros. put all there effort into the next gen formats and dump on those of us still unable, or unwilling to shell out the cash for a next gen player, or do all the transfers suffer from these problems? This is a top tier presentation on some levels, but it's nothing as stunning as other filmed in HD (not HD-DVD) releases like Revenge of the Sith, or even Wolf Creek.

Audio
DTS fans will be bummed by the lack of a DTS track, as the only track available is an old fashion 5.1 Dolby Digital one. Perhaps a DTS track could've been even more spectacular, but I find complaints very hard to come by here. This is an equally aggressive and subtle track that strikes an amazing balance at even high volume levels. The LFE track is almost too much at times, but it rarely overpowers the rest of the track. Dialogue is clear and centered, and discernable even during louder sequences. The immersing quality of the mix is best displayed during the sequences on New Krypton, where one can hear the sound of the ground creaking with growth and the sky rocked with thunder.
Extras
There is no doubt in my mind that there will be a double dip on this DVD. Every extra here points to more available, and the possibility of a sequel is looking more and more realistic. This 2-disc set isn't a complete disappointment, but is lacking nonetheless.
The first disc is completely barebones. The second disc starts with almost 3 hours of behind the scenes production diaries. It's very, very obvious that there was a lot more of this stuff, and the editing choices here seem random and curious. There is a whole bunch of good info, and viewers do get a first hand view of the filmmaking process, but there is something definitely lacking. The footage is best when it shows us a bit of Singer's dark side. According to several accounts from the set of X-Men 2 the director can be very hard to work with. Alan Cumming, Halle Barry, and other cast members have stated unspecific problems on several occasions since the film's release. Only notoriously nice Hugh Jackman has kept his mouth shut, though apparently his relationship with Singer was also rocky.

I'm also happy so much attention is paid to Spacey and Routh. Spacey seems to have become a bit of a diva over the years, but his stand-up comic roots make him ever entertaining to watch work. Routh appears to be the nicest guy in the world. He's always warm to the behind the scenes crew, almost painfully modest, and one can really see the reasoning behind Singer's selection. Surprisingly, Kate Bosworth, who played Lois Lane, is somewhat ignored in the footage. I'm curious about this, as I thought she was the one weak link in the cast. Perhaps there were some problems being saved for another DVD release.
The deleted scenes are incomplete and consist mostly of quiet moments on the Kent family farm. Singer has spoken publicly about a trashed scene of Kal-El visiting the remains of Krypton, and the production diaries feature another deleted scene between Superman and Daily Planet boss Mr. White. My guess is that there's at least another hour of deleted footage, which may explain the extraneous budget. The best of the included scenes is one where Clark realizes his mother is dating an old family friend. He deals with the revelation in a surprisingly selfish fashion, adding to his selfless final act arch.
The features are finished off with a brief featurette about the compositing process made on old footage of Marlon Brando. The fact that this is the closest we get to an in depth look at the digital effects of the film (there's some footage of the mo-cap process on the production diaries) is another clue pointing to a deluxe release in our future. There's also a small collection of trailers for Superman Returns and various video games featuring the character.

Overall
A flawed film, no doubt, Superman Returns is better on a second viewing. It's melancholy nature may turn off most viewers, but those willing to take such a sad journey are lucky enough to enjoy some top notch performances and a striking visual look. It isn't quite the overwhelming romantic tear-jerking Singer wanted it to be, but it also doesn't deserve the mediocre fate it seems to have inherited. The DVD has a flawed video transfer, but a great audio presentation, and some decent special features. I've no doubt that a double dip is in our future, but I think at least a rental is in order. Super-fans really should give it a second chance.
Review by Gabriel Powers
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"and what should I expect from this?" meaning you haven't seen it. "'superman returns' is a failure" How would you know if you haven't seen it?
I'm surprised some of you think PIRATES was a mess...a bit overlong, I agree. As far as Pirates vs. Miami Vice is, the appeal of the former was much greater than "Miami.
HagenDarth wrote: I'm surprised some of you think PIRATES was a mess...a bit overlong, I agree. As far as Pirates vs. Miami Vice is, the appeal of the former was much greater than "Miami.
Comparing 'Pirates' to 'Vice' is another asinine statement. "Miami Vice" was rated R, which nowadays limits your box office take exponentially. 'Pirates' was not only rated PG-13 but was also a sequel to a very succesfull movie; it's like comparing apples to, I dunno, rocks?
As for 'Pirates' it was a bit of a mess...it was all over the place and in need of a good editor. A movie like that, which I mean to say is a fluff popcorn movie, should be no more than an hour and forty five minutes, or two hours at the most. Stretching it out to over two-and-a-half hours was a gross mistake - there were action sequences and scenes there for no express purpose other than to be there. Let's face it: it's the West's fascination with pirates and Johnny Depp's performance that draws us to these flicks, not their actual "quality"
Comparing 'Pirates' to 'Vice' is another asinine statement. "Miami Vice" was rated R, which nowadays limits your box office take exponentially. 'Pirates' was not only rated PG-13 but was also a sequel to a very succesfull movie; it's like comparing apples to, I dunno, rocks?
As for 'Pirates' it was a bit of a mess...it was all over the place and in need of a good editor. A movie like that, which I mean to say is a fluff popcorn movie, should be no more than an hour and forty five minutes, or two hours at the most. Stretching it out to over two-and-a-half hours was a gross mistake - there were action sequences and scenes there for no express purpose other than to be there. Let's face it: it's the West's fascination with pirates and Johnny Depp's performance that draws us to these flicks, not their actual "quality"
I missed the ratings thing, and obviously it was a big factor, but I also think that, to begin with,"Pirates" had a wider appeal than "Miami Vice," and obviously people had high expectations of the former, expectations that were met. Also, I hadn't meant to compare the films story-wise,
obviously it's apples vs. oranges.
ticktock wrote: "Let's face it: it's the West's fascination with pirates and Johnny Depp's performance that draws us to these flicks, not their actual "quality" That's exactly it, and I think this applies not only to "Pirates" but also other movies that lack quality but are huge successes.
obviously it's apples vs. oranges.
ticktock wrote: "Let's face it: it's the West's fascination with pirates and Johnny Depp's performance that draws us to these flicks, not their actual "quality" That's exactly it, and I think this applies not only to "Pirates" but also other movies that lack quality but are huge successes.
Gabe Powers wrote: RalphFiennes wrote: Is it not a contradiction to praise Parker Posey's "hilarious" performance and Kevin Spacey's "balance between funny and frightening and then refer to the film post-airplane-scene as humourless?
After the airplane rescue, the humour is sucked out of both of those characters, relatively, and we aren't given another pure comedy scene until the end, a scene I didn't find very funny.
This doesn't matter though, because my statement was referring to the entire film, of which there were nearly 2 more hours of. Besides, if you're going to nitpick me, at least quote me accurately. I said "humour is lacking", which implies humor is still present.
I wasn't trying to nitpick and I'm sorry if I offended you. I was trying to establish what your opinion of the film was as it wasn't completely clear to me personally.
I agree with you about Pirates 2 by the way, it was really dull, with only a few moments of genuine interest. Found myself yawning through it and I kept thinking "I shouldn't be yawning in this..."
After the airplane rescue, the humour is sucked out of both of those characters, relatively, and we aren't given another pure comedy scene until the end, a scene I didn't find very funny.
This doesn't matter though, because my statement was referring to the entire film, of which there were nearly 2 more hours of. Besides, if you're going to nitpick me, at least quote me accurately. I said "humour is lacking", which implies humor is still present.
I wasn't trying to nitpick and I'm sorry if I offended you. I was trying to establish what your opinion of the film was as it wasn't completely clear to me personally.
I agree with you about Pirates 2 by the way, it was really dull, with only a few moments of genuine interest. Found myself yawning through it and I kept thinking "I shouldn't be yawning in this..."
I'm sorry if I'm a bit defensive, I've been having to defend my opinion a little too often lately. I hope my previous statement, though snippy, cleared things up for you.
Well, I just watched Superman Returns for the first time, and I must say that I really enjoyed it. And it's interesting why that is.
Having just gotten my 14-disc Superman Deluxe set, I watched the first two original movies (sans the Richard Donnor Cut of II) for the first time in a very long time. First time ever in widescreen too, I believe. So while having those fresh in my mind, watching Superman Returns right after those, I think made a big difference. Being that SR is basically Superman III if we wanna think of it that way, seeing the Man of Steel as an updated 21st Century version with modern special and visual effects brought back that magic that now I wished the first two had, in terms of movie making magic.
Now then, as those of you who know, SR has a lot of homages to the original film both in settings and in dialogue. I found it humorous (in a good way) that they used some of the same dialogue from the first movie in this one.
I also liked the fact that this movie was a bit darker than we have come to expect from a Superman movie. I like the fact that Superman can show his anger when it comes to fighting bad guys. Kevy Spacey made a much more believable Lex Luthor than Gene Hackman ever did. I also like the fact that they used the same M.O. of the Gene Hackman verison, the "beach-front" property land deal.
About the perceived lack of action sequences, I didn't really notice. I thought each action piece was well placed and situated within the script/story. Now for the sequel, yeah, I wouldn't mind staying close with the comics for the idea of a villian. I'd love using Brainiac as a villian. It'd be a first for sure.
Having just gotten my 14-disc Superman Deluxe set, I watched the first two original movies (sans the Richard Donnor Cut of II) for the first time in a very long time. First time ever in widescreen too, I believe. So while having those fresh in my mind, watching Superman Returns right after those, I think made a big difference. Being that SR is basically Superman III if we wanna think of it that way, seeing the Man of Steel as an updated 21st Century version with modern special and visual effects brought back that magic that now I wished the first two had, in terms of movie making magic.
Now then, as those of you who know, SR has a lot of homages to the original film both in settings and in dialogue. I found it humorous (in a good way) that they used some of the same dialogue from the first movie in this one.
I also liked the fact that this movie was a bit darker than we have come to expect from a Superman movie. I like the fact that Superman can show his anger when it comes to fighting bad guys. Kevy Spacey made a much more believable Lex Luthor than Gene Hackman ever did. I also like the fact that they used the same M.O. of the Gene Hackman verison, the "beach-front" property land deal.
About the perceived lack of action sequences, I didn't really notice. I thought each action piece was well placed and situated within the script/story. Now for the sequel, yeah, I wouldn't mind staying close with the comics for the idea of a villian. I'd love using Brainiac as a villian. It'd be a first for sure.
Braniac is the ideal choice. If Singer's universe takes Donner's into consideration, I don't think we really need more rogue Kryptonians. Braniac is the planet's computer in the original films, the way it is in the animated series, right?
This was one of the biggest dissapointments of 2006. The film had so many holes in it, it was like trying to watch a person with no teeth smile. Add to the fact that Bryan Singer has never read a copy of a "Superman" comic book, & you'll see that "Superman Returns" never really had a fighting chance for true success.
The cast was likable at best. Routh was o.k. as Superman/Clark Kent but he's no Christopher Reeve. As I watched "Returns" I couldn't help but think how Reeve would've played out certain scenes. Bosworth totally sucked as Lois Lane. She was just a damn mess & I won't even mention the kid who portrayed the ..., a kid. Spacey was decent as Luthor, but, Hackman (yes, Gene f***ing Hackman!) was better in the role. I'm sooooo damn tired of seeing Hackman being dumped on. Gene Hackman should get the respect he so muchly deserves, because he is one of the last of the great Hollywood actors. The rest of the cast is a waste, period.
The plotholes:
1.)Superman visits the remains of Krypton. If the remains of Krypton are chunks of space rock, isn't this safe to say that the remains of Krypton are actually KRYPTONITE THAT CAN KILL SUPERMAN!? This also goes for the lifting of the island at the end of the film. Superman should have been so irratiated with Kryptonite radiation he should have been renamed son of Hulk.
2.)Superman ain't no daddy - I don't need a Maury Povitch paternity test for this one. In "Superman II" Superman gave up his powers to be with Lois. Even if he did get her knocked up she wouldn't know who the father is (magic kiss at the end of the film). In Donnor's version of "SII" Supe-baby turns the world backwards (again!) causing everything to revert back to the way things were before the Phantom Zone villians' vacation on Earth, this includes impregnating Lois. Even if Supes forgot to pull out, he probably would've killed her (think about it).
3.)The airplane save - great sequence, until the end. Superman is slowly controlling the plane, the camera pans down to the crowd & the players on the field & NO ONE IS RUNNING FOR THE EXIT! If I saw a plane that size, on fire, trying to land in my lap, I sure as hell would at least make every effort to head for the hills, Superman or not!
I could go on, but you get the drift. I guaran-damn-tee this will be in the five dollar bin at Wal-Mart next Xmas.
The cast was likable at best. Routh was o.k. as Superman/Clark Kent but he's no Christopher Reeve. As I watched "Returns" I couldn't help but think how Reeve would've played out certain scenes. Bosworth totally sucked as Lois Lane. She was just a damn mess & I won't even mention the kid who portrayed the ..., a kid. Spacey was decent as Luthor, but, Hackman (yes, Gene f***ing Hackman!) was better in the role. I'm sooooo damn tired of seeing Hackman being dumped on. Gene Hackman should get the respect he so muchly deserves, because he is one of the last of the great Hollywood actors. The rest of the cast is a waste, period.
The plotholes:
1.)Superman visits the remains of Krypton. If the remains of Krypton are chunks of space rock, isn't this safe to say that the remains of Krypton are actually KRYPTONITE THAT CAN KILL SUPERMAN!? This also goes for the lifting of the island at the end of the film. Superman should have been so irratiated with Kryptonite radiation he should have been renamed son of Hulk.
2.)Superman ain't no daddy - I don't need a Maury Povitch paternity test for this one. In "Superman II" Superman gave up his powers to be with Lois. Even if he did get her knocked up she wouldn't know who the father is (magic kiss at the end of the film). In Donnor's version of "SII" Supe-baby turns the world backwards (again!) causing everything to revert back to the way things were before the Phantom Zone villians' vacation on Earth, this includes impregnating Lois. Even if Supes forgot to pull out, he probably would've killed her (think about it).
3.)The airplane save - great sequence, until the end. Superman is slowly controlling the plane, the camera pans down to the crowd & the players on the field & NO ONE IS RUNNING FOR THE EXIT! If I saw a plane that size, on fire, trying to land in my lap, I sure as hell would at least make every effort to head for the hills, Superman or not!
I could go on, but you get the drift. I guaran-damn-tee this will be in the five dollar bin at Wal-Mart next Xmas.
Wow, that's what I call nit picking. I'm not even going to touch it. I actually have the same answer for all three of those problems, but I'm pretty sure it would fall on deaf ears. If you can't enjoy a motion picture on any kind of non-literal level (not to mention the fact that this is a film about a humaniod alien that absorbs the sun's rays and becomes very strong), why do you even bother?
If we're gonna talk "plot-holes" in fantasy cinema why don't we talk about the fact that turning the world backwards would not only send everyone and everything flying into space, but the fact that it doesn't turn back time.
There are pleanty of reasons not to like a movie (specifically this one) but this kind of determination is down right silly to me. Though I do agree Bosworth was all wrong for the role, something I left out of my review.
If we're gonna talk "plot-holes" in fantasy cinema why don't we talk about the fact that turning the world backwards would not only send everyone and everything flying into space, but the fact that it doesn't turn back time.
There are pleanty of reasons not to like a movie (specifically this one) but this kind of determination is down right silly to me. Though I do agree Bosworth was all wrong for the role, something I left out of my review.
Couldn't agree more Gabe. That sort of nit-picking is just ridiculous, not to mention easily explained in the context of the movie.
I don't find this type of nitpicking really that ridiculous. I'm just trying to state the obvious. "Superman Returns" should've been an epic film but instead comes off, for me personaly, as big & forced.
The plot was a rehash land grab scheme of Luthor's. The romance between Superman & Lois was pathetic. Superman spying on Lois & her son were just creepy. The list goes on.
The really sad thing is that if "Warner Bros." & the powers that be, really sat down & took the time to flesh out a great story, this movie could have rivalled "Batman Begins". That is what pisses me off. The film studios are more concentrated on making a big, quick return financially off of the film itself as well as any & all merchandising than making a memorable movie. "Warner Bros." does this all to well (prime examples the last 2 "Batman" films from the 90's & "The Matrix" films).
Gabe & Chris please explain to me the answers to the 3 plotholes I posted in my first post, I'm all ears & yes, I do know that if you try to turn the Earth backwards everything goes into space.
The plot was a rehash land grab scheme of Luthor's. The romance between Superman & Lois was pathetic. Superman spying on Lois & her son were just creepy. The list goes on.
The really sad thing is that if "Warner Bros." & the powers that be, really sat down & took the time to flesh out a great story, this movie could have rivalled "Batman Begins". That is what pisses me off. The film studios are more concentrated on making a big, quick return financially off of the film itself as well as any & all merchandising than making a memorable movie. "Warner Bros." does this all to well (prime examples the last 2 "Batman" films from the 90's & "The Matrix" films).
Gabe & Chris please explain to me the answers to the 3 plotholes I posted in my first post, I'm all ears & yes, I do know that if you try to turn the Earth backwards everything goes into space.
1) Krypton (as far as my knowledge goes, perhaps this is a different continuity) exploded because of the Kryptonite build-up. Now, the Kryptonians on Krypton, do they have powers? No. Why? Red sun. Now Kryptonite, like Superman is sent to an environment with a Yellow sun, so, like Superman, it will be stronger and will react differently. As for "New Krypton", did you not see Superman in the hospital, dead for at least a few seconds? The Kryptonite DID affect him (I guess you missed the blisters on his hands as well, that's hard to see, I missed it as well first time around, just more of a factoid
) So it didn't make him keel over, if you're sick, and you HAVE to do something, do you not push yourself stronger? In "S:TM", ok, 2 nukes and he almost "died", ok, well, this was his first encounter with Kryptonite, caught him off-guard, he now can control it, block it out.
2) So? Who's to say that they didn't sleep together AFTER "Superman II"?
3) You look up in the sky and see a plane on fire crashing towards you. Logical thing to do: Run, like you said. However, in moments of panic and terror, sometimes you can't help but stare. Not to mention if you're scared stiff, you can't run, hence the wording "Stiff".
Hope that helps.
2) So? Who's to say that they didn't sleep together AFTER "Superman II"?
3) You look up in the sky and see a plane on fire crashing towards you. Logical thing to do: Run, like you said. However, in moments of panic and terror, sometimes you can't help but stare. Not to mention if you're scared stiff, you can't run, hence the wording "Stiff".
Hope that helps.
Thanks for the response Mr. Cheese! But..,
1.) o.k. I get the whole sun powers Superman stuff. But with Superman lifting the chunk of Krypto-land, thats roughly half the state of Rhode Island, out of the water, & getting it into space, Supes is exhausted & passes out, falling to Earth & scaring three year olds for miles around. The way I saw this sequence was Superman absorbed so much kryptonite radation that he pushed his body over the max, to the point of no return. No matter how much sun he absorbed it wouldn't have helped. Even if he did survive all of that, the recovery scene should have been more, I don't know, believable somehow, less E.T. like.
2.) Superman - not the father! If he is, there had better be a believable plot thread to this. In the current issues of "Action Comics" the recent storyline has a meteor falling to Earth with a young boy inside that possesses almost the exact powers that Superman has. The government, with the help of Supes, takes him into custody. That is until Superman finds out that the government wants to keep the boy as a top secret project. Superman "takes" the boy away from the gov. &, with the help of Lois & under the guise Clark Kent, secretly adopts him, telling the adoption agency that he's a lost relative. As this is all going down three space pods land on Earth to reveal General Zod, Ursa, & Non, ready to give Superman some heavy duty payback. This story is actually really well done, so far, & some die-hard Superman fans that I know say this should have been the story for "Superman Returns". I totally agree. Who is the author to this comic story? Richard Donner.
3.) Sure I can buy some people being scared stiff, but, a whole stadium full of people including 2 baseball teams!? That I don't buy.
1.) o.k. I get the whole sun powers Superman stuff. But with Superman lifting the chunk of Krypto-land, thats roughly half the state of Rhode Island, out of the water, & getting it into space, Supes is exhausted & passes out, falling to Earth & scaring three year olds for miles around. The way I saw this sequence was Superman absorbed so much kryptonite radation that he pushed his body over the max, to the point of no return. No matter how much sun he absorbed it wouldn't have helped. Even if he did survive all of that, the recovery scene should have been more, I don't know, believable somehow, less E.T. like.
2.) Superman - not the father! If he is, there had better be a believable plot thread to this. In the current issues of "Action Comics" the recent storyline has a meteor falling to Earth with a young boy inside that possesses almost the exact powers that Superman has. The government, with the help of Supes, takes him into custody. That is until Superman finds out that the government wants to keep the boy as a top secret project. Superman "takes" the boy away from the gov. &, with the help of Lois & under the guise Clark Kent, secretly adopts him, telling the adoption agency that he's a lost relative. As this is all going down three space pods land on Earth to reveal General Zod, Ursa, & Non, ready to give Superman some heavy duty payback. This story is actually really well done, so far, & some die-hard Superman fans that I know say this should have been the story for "Superman Returns". I totally agree. Who is the author to this comic story? Richard Donner.
3.) Sure I can buy some people being scared stiff, but, a whole stadium full of people including 2 baseball teams!? That I don't buy.
I knew I wouldn't convince you 
All right then, and once again, forgive me if my information is wrong:
1) Superman, he is exposed to Kryptonite. Normal situation, exposed to a "regular" chunk for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, chunk taken away, he doesn't jump up and go, doesn't he take a minute or two to recover? Ok, maybe not, but it takes him a few minutes to get back to full strength. So, for a chunk "Roughly half the size of Rhode Island", even though it wasn't pure Kryptonite, for what was it, 3 minutes? For that, he would take a longer time to recover. And also, just for the sake of argument, since the Kryptonite merged with the crystal, perhaps it lost some of it's strength and became less potent. There is no point of no return for Superman, that's why he's Superman. What's that you say? Doomsday? Well, again, Kryptonite, varyinge levels of strength, Doomsday... Yeah, a Kryptonian "monster" that's much stronger than Superman. Yes that would kill him.
2) I admit I laughed a little at this. You wanted point 1 to be less like E.T., when this has more elements of E.T. in it. Sounds like a good story, and with Donner as the writer, it's probably out of this world. So, I'm confused, how is this in the same continuity of "S:TM" and "SII" (or "SII:RDC" )?
3) Right, so what does being on a baseball team have to do with your level of fright? Was the plane not slowing down as it fell, due to Superman's intervention? That would make me look in curiosity, why is that plane that's on fire be slowing down as it plummets?
Of course, I know this won't convince you, and quite frankly, I know nothing will, your mind is made up, you're going to hate the movie and nothing I say or do will make you think otherwise. I'm just trying to rationalise a ficticious film about a man who is invincible to anything, except a rare chunk of his radioactive homeworld.
I leave now with a quote from Jor-El: "This is no fantasy - no careless product of wild imagination". Suspend your disbelief for 2 and a half hours, you'll find you'll enjoy more films like this. If you want to talk real plausability, then let's talk about the physics of a lightsabre or a transporter from Star Trek...
All right then, and once again, forgive me if my information is wrong:
1) Superman, he is exposed to Kryptonite. Normal situation, exposed to a "regular" chunk for 5 minutes. After 5 minutes, chunk taken away, he doesn't jump up and go, doesn't he take a minute or two to recover? Ok, maybe not, but it takes him a few minutes to get back to full strength. So, for a chunk "Roughly half the size of Rhode Island", even though it wasn't pure Kryptonite, for what was it, 3 minutes? For that, he would take a longer time to recover. And also, just for the sake of argument, since the Kryptonite merged with the crystal, perhaps it lost some of it's strength and became less potent. There is no point of no return for Superman, that's why he's Superman. What's that you say? Doomsday? Well, again, Kryptonite, varyinge levels of strength, Doomsday... Yeah, a Kryptonian "monster" that's much stronger than Superman. Yes that would kill him.
2) I admit I laughed a little at this. You wanted point 1 to be less like E.T., when this has more elements of E.T. in it. Sounds like a good story, and with Donner as the writer, it's probably out of this world. So, I'm confused, how is this in the same continuity of "S:TM" and "SII" (or "SII:RDC" )?
3) Right, so what does being on a baseball team have to do with your level of fright? Was the plane not slowing down as it fell, due to Superman's intervention? That would make me look in curiosity, why is that plane that's on fire be slowing down as it plummets?
Of course, I know this won't convince you, and quite frankly, I know nothing will, your mind is made up, you're going to hate the movie and nothing I say or do will make you think otherwise. I'm just trying to rationalise a ficticious film about a man who is invincible to anything, except a rare chunk of his radioactive homeworld.
I leave now with a quote from Jor-El: "This is no fantasy - no careless product of wild imagination". Suspend your disbelief for 2 and a half hours, you'll find you'll enjoy more films like this. If you want to talk real plausability, then let's talk about the physics of a lightsabre or a transporter from Star Trek...
Sorry, I didn't see that there had been more responses.
George Wright wrote: I don't find this type of nitpicking really that ridiculous. I'm just trying to state the obvious. "Superman Returns" should've been an epic film but instead comes off, for me personaly, as big & forced.
The plot was a rehash land grab scheme of Luthor's. The romance between Superman & Lois was pathetic. Superman spying on Lois & her son were just creepy. The list goes on.
The really sad thing is that if "Warner Bros." & the powers that be, really sat down & took the time to flesh out a great story, this movie could have rivalled "Batman Begins". That is what pisses me off. The film studios are more concentrated on making a big, quick return financially off of the film itself as well as any & all merchandising than making a memorable movie. "Warner Bros." does this all to well (prime examples the last 2 "Batman" films from the 90's & "The Matrix" films).
Gabe & Chris please explain to me the answers to the 3 plotholes I posted in my first post, I'm all ears & yes, I do know that if you try to turn the Earth backwards everything goes into space.
Your comments in this post are logical and I agree to a certain extent (as stated in my review). The nitpicking I'm refering to has to do with these "plot holes" as you call them. First of all, I'm not a person who gets too uptight about the facts concerning fictional characters and their powers, specifically when I don't think the rest of the movie is effected by these inconsistencies. In the case of X-Men 3, I noticed simular problems (though a lot more than 3), and focused on them because the rest of the film was so weakly dependant on them. In the case of Superman Returns, I find your problems entirely unimportant in the grand scheme of the film. I agree that the introduction of Superman's child isn't the greatest idea, but don't see why it couldn't have happened in the psudo-sequel world of Superman Returns.
Second, I'm not sure you understand the definition of the phrase "plot hole". Arguments could be made for the child, again, but I don't see the Kryptonite planet as effecting the flow of logic in the film's plot (especially if you look at the film as a standalone, which you obviously do not), and I know that the stadium scene is in no way a plot hole. Unrealistic, perhaps, but then, so is a man with lazer eyes.
You insistance that the stadium scene makes this a bad movie is a text book case of nit picking. I see in your second post that you actually have a solid grasp on what you found wrong with the film, but when one of your top three listed reasons for not liking the film is the fact that extras don't act in a realistic manner, you appear to be looking for reasons to complain.
But what the hell.
1) Kal-El went to the remains of Krypton in a space suit and space ship. Perhaps these both protected him from Kryptonite. Also, while away from the earth's yellow sun he has no powers, and thus perhaps in the universe of this film, he no longer has a problem with Kryptonite while powerless. (as stated by Mr. Cheese, I see now)
So far as being able to lift the land mass of at the film's end, I thought it was pretty well established in the context of this film that Kryptonite weakens Superman, but doesn't isntantly drain him. Maybe he got a big enough sun charge to hold himself together for 10 minutes while lifting the mass, he did almost die at the end of it.
2) I don't care at all about an unreleased Richard Donner film when considering the plot threads of this film. I don't care what Donner intended in his comic version, Donner didn't make Superman Returns, and even though Bryan Singer paidd homage to him, he was not setting out to make a direct sequel. Undoing an entire film by turning time backwards is a weak way of trying to write one's self out of a corner. If Bryan Singer and his writers say that Superman is a father in the movie Superman Returns, then they're telling the truth.
3) Honestly, all I can say to this problem is that you're nit picking and it's only a movie. I don't see any reason to discuss it.
What you need to understand is that in the long history of a character as old as Superman, there will be discrepancies, and that there is more than one version of the character. If you try to tie up contimuity you'll come up empty handed and frustrated. I could complain about the fact that Ra's Al Ghul isn't "suppose" to be Japanese, American, or the man that trained Bruce Wayne, but I'd be unrealistically assigning my personal favourite version of a character to a film universe where he did not live.
That's all I really have to say about that, I'm not willing to get into an argument about this. I agree with your general comments, but not your fevered search for logic in a fantasy world. Sorry.
George Wright wrote: I don't find this type of nitpicking really that ridiculous. I'm just trying to state the obvious. "Superman Returns" should've been an epic film but instead comes off, for me personaly, as big & forced.
The plot was a rehash land grab scheme of Luthor's. The romance between Superman & Lois was pathetic. Superman spying on Lois & her son were just creepy. The list goes on.
The really sad thing is that if "Warner Bros." & the powers that be, really sat down & took the time to flesh out a great story, this movie could have rivalled "Batman Begins". That is what pisses me off. The film studios are more concentrated on making a big, quick return financially off of the film itself as well as any & all merchandising than making a memorable movie. "Warner Bros." does this all to well (prime examples the last 2 "Batman" films from the 90's & "The Matrix" films).
Gabe & Chris please explain to me the answers to the 3 plotholes I posted in my first post, I'm all ears & yes, I do know that if you try to turn the Earth backwards everything goes into space.
Your comments in this post are logical and I agree to a certain extent (as stated in my review). The nitpicking I'm refering to has to do with these "plot holes" as you call them. First of all, I'm not a person who gets too uptight about the facts concerning fictional characters and their powers, specifically when I don't think the rest of the movie is effected by these inconsistencies. In the case of X-Men 3, I noticed simular problems (though a lot more than 3), and focused on them because the rest of the film was so weakly dependant on them. In the case of Superman Returns, I find your problems entirely unimportant in the grand scheme of the film. I agree that the introduction of Superman's child isn't the greatest idea, but don't see why it couldn't have happened in the psudo-sequel world of Superman Returns.
Second, I'm not sure you understand the definition of the phrase "plot hole". Arguments could be made for the child, again, but I don't see the Kryptonite planet as effecting the flow of logic in the film's plot (especially if you look at the film as a standalone, which you obviously do not), and I know that the stadium scene is in no way a plot hole. Unrealistic, perhaps, but then, so is a man with lazer eyes.
You insistance that the stadium scene makes this a bad movie is a text book case of nit picking. I see in your second post that you actually have a solid grasp on what you found wrong with the film, but when one of your top three listed reasons for not liking the film is the fact that extras don't act in a realistic manner, you appear to be looking for reasons to complain.
But what the hell.
1) Kal-El went to the remains of Krypton in a space suit and space ship. Perhaps these both protected him from Kryptonite. Also, while away from the earth's yellow sun he has no powers, and thus perhaps in the universe of this film, he no longer has a problem with Kryptonite while powerless. (as stated by Mr. Cheese, I see now)
So far as being able to lift the land mass of at the film's end, I thought it was pretty well established in the context of this film that Kryptonite weakens Superman, but doesn't isntantly drain him. Maybe he got a big enough sun charge to hold himself together for 10 minutes while lifting the mass, he did almost die at the end of it.
2) I don't care at all about an unreleased Richard Donner film when considering the plot threads of this film. I don't care what Donner intended in his comic version, Donner didn't make Superman Returns, and even though Bryan Singer paidd homage to him, he was not setting out to make a direct sequel. Undoing an entire film by turning time backwards is a weak way of trying to write one's self out of a corner. If Bryan Singer and his writers say that Superman is a father in the movie Superman Returns, then they're telling the truth.
3) Honestly, all I can say to this problem is that you're nit picking and it's only a movie. I don't see any reason to discuss it.
What you need to understand is that in the long history of a character as old as Superman, there will be discrepancies, and that there is more than one version of the character. If you try to tie up contimuity you'll come up empty handed and frustrated. I could complain about the fact that Ra's Al Ghul isn't "suppose" to be Japanese, American, or the man that trained Bruce Wayne, but I'd be unrealistically assigning my personal favourite version of a character to a film universe where he did not live.
That's all I really have to say about that, I'm not willing to get into an argument about this. I agree with your general comments, but not your fevered search for logic in a fantasy world. Sorry.
As regards a deluxe release at a later date, you may be right, but doesn't the R1 ultimate edition include a disc devoted to Bryan Singer's video diaries? Perhaps that's Warner's way of saying that the extra stuff is available, but only if you're willing to pay the big bucks.
The R1 ultimate edition (which is available at Best Buy) had only a few of the diaries and they were also cut for some stupid reason. The R1 ultimate edition has all of Bryan Singer's production diaries, uncut.
Gabe Powers wrote: Braniac is the planet's computer in the original films, the way it is in the animated series, right?
I don't think Brainiac is mentioned in the original films. But that's how I know Brainiac.
Originally in the comics he was an alien who shrank the Kryptonian city of Kandor before it was destroyed, Supes keeps it in the Frotress, trying to get it back to size or something.
So many continuities... So hard to keep track. Why can't there be 1 definitive one?
I don't think Brainiac is mentioned in the original films. But that's how I know Brainiac.
Originally in the comics he was an alien who shrank the Kryptonian city of Kandor before it was destroyed, Supes keeps it in the Frotress, trying to get it back to size or something.
So many continuities... So hard to keep track. Why can't there be 1 definitive one?


Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13
Disc Details
Release Date:
28th November 2006
Discs:
2
Disc Type:
Single side, dual layer
RCE:
No
Video:
NTSC
Aspect:
2.40:1
Anamorphic:
Yes
Colour:
Yes
Audio:
Dolby Digital 5.1 English, Dolby Digital 5.1 Spanish
Subtitles:
English, Spanish, French
Extras:
"Requiem for Krypton: Making Superman Returns", Resurrecting Jor-El, Deleted Scenes, Trailers
Easter Egg:
No
Feature Details
Director:
Bryan Singer
Cast:
Brandon Routh, Kate Bosworth, Kevin Spacey, James Marsden, Parker Posey
Genre:
Action and Drama
Length:
154 minutes
Ratings
Awards





i hated 'batman begins'
i didnt like 'X3' that much
and what should I expect from this?
well not much!!! 'superman returns' is a failure as well as the other 2 movies!!